cut down plastic foundation?

kattz · April 29, 2008, 09:54:02 PM

Is it possible or has anyone tried cutting down plastic foundation and using it as a starter strip? would it work? Just wondering :?

doak · April 29, 2008, 10:58:59 PM

If you have some your not going to use as is, And, can find a way to cut it without it shattering.
When you find a way to cut it let me know.
If it is warmed up and get a blade they use to cut hydraulic hose with and mount it on a table saw.
Or maybe a hand held jig saw would do.
doak

Joseph Clemens · April 30, 2008, 12:51:58 AM

Plastic foundation can be cut on a table saw, if you install the blade backwards, set the depth of cut to cut a little more than half way through the foundation, then turn it over and finish by feeding the opposite side - always feed very carefully and slowly.

The easiest way to cut plastic frames and foundation is by using a band saw. Cuts easily and cleanly with almost no waste.

Cindi · April 30, 2008, 12:52:45 AM

Kattz, not sure if this is what you are meaning, but my Husband made some starter strip using Pierco plastic foundation, cutting out the plastic and leaving a strip. Next time I would get him to leave only a teeny tiny bit of the plastic strip. He used a dremmel.

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php?topic=11451.0

Here is a picture before the bees began to work it. Good luck with getting responses, I am sure that someone will have a great reply for ya. Beautiful day in this great life. Cindi

kattz · April 30, 2008, 09:35:05 AM

Thank you Cindi for that link that you posted, that is exactly what I had in mind. After reading some of the post results maybe Iâ€™ll have to give the wax starter strips a try on some of my upper supers.
Bad thing is it will be at least a week or longer before I can get wax foundation to cut down. Thanks to everyone that posted I really appreciated all the comments.

Robo · April 30, 2008, 09:47:49 AM

Quote from: kattz on April 30, 2008, 09:35:05 AM
Bad thing is it will be at least a week or longer before I can get wax foundation to cut down.

No need to spend the money on foundation to cut up for starter strips. People just do that because they have foundation they no longer need. You can use wood strips or anything else you have around. I like to use coroplast signs as it fits perfectly in grooved top bars.

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php?topic=13296.msg93462#msg93462

Cindi · April 30, 2008, 10:20:44 AM

Katzz. Robo has that great idea too, his pictures are really good, the bees are so versatile that so many things can be done with them, good luck!!! You can do it!! Have that beautiful and most wonderful day, Cindi

Barbara · April 30, 2008, 02:31:23 PM

Robo, do you coat them with bees wax? We have installed frames with wooden starter strips, with our nucs and they don't seem to want to build on them yet. Our weather hasn't been great since we got the nuc, so maybe I'm just being impatient.

Robo · April 30, 2008, 03:14:35 PM

No coating. Just be patient, they will draw comb when they need it.

kattz · April 30, 2008, 03:50:40 PM

Thanks Robo great pictures and it's amazing the things you can learn from this place I have really enjoyed it :-D

SystemShark · April 30, 2008, 04:10:13 PM

I never thought of using coroplast signs, thats so cool! I'm just going to be starting here shortly but instead of buying all these frame/foundation combination I'd rather go foundationless - since I think it'll be beter for when I do crush and strain. So I can just buy the grooved topbar frames and then start supporting one of the hot political candiates; for the signs!

JordanM · April 30, 2008, 05:56:52 PM

If you used plastic foundation and the cells were not natural( small cell). Would the bees keep building the comb that size down or would they go back to small cell?

Joseph Clemens · April 30, 2008, 06:27:28 PM

Quote from: JordanM on April 30, 2008, 05:56:52 PM
If you used plastic foundation and the cells were not natural( small cell). Would the bees keep building the comb that size down or would they go back to small cell?

When bees are building comb, with foundation - beeswax or plastic, they often follow the pattern very well, but not always, even with the foundations cell pattern the bees will sometimes do what they want anyway. When they have starter strips or guides for foundationless comb building they often start several small combs across the length of the top bar, each one will often be of slightly different orientation and cell sizes, which they eventually merge together, but they won't necessarily build any large contiguous combs with uniformly sized cells.

mark · April 30, 2008, 09:56:32 PM

they draw and fasten wax to just about anything when they need too. i had left a polystyrene insulation board on too long with one frame missing in the super. they had a perfect comb drawn in the empty space attached to the polystyrene.

doak · May 01, 2008, 08:48:50 PM

I am going to try this.
Before turning the blade backwards. Get a good strait 2x4 and adjust the fence the width you want the strips. Adjust the blade to cut half through the 2x4.
I have a very fine tooth blade I will put on in reverse and adjust to saw no deeper into the x4.
Then place your plastic foundation under the 2x4 and saw away.
I always use a push block. don't you? and safety goggles.
Bet it'l work. ;)doak

P.S.
You always turn the blade around backwards to cut a sky light in your car. :roll: :) ;) :shock:

derrick1p1 · May 02, 2008, 11:58:50 AM

Since we are on the subject of foundation....
I've used plastic foundation on all 4 hives. I'd like to slowly switch to all wax foundations, or at least maybe move away from plastic. But the time needed to properly install wax foundation with wire supports seem so time consuming. Are wires embedded in the wax necessary? Or only if planned to use an extruder when harvesting?
If I convert to wax foundation, then should this be done to the brood chamber as well, or leave it with plastic foundation?

I know these are loaded questions, but I haven't read much debate on this in my books. They just give instructions on how to use each, but not the pros and cons.

Best,
Derrick

doak · May 02, 2008, 04:12:38 PM

"BE" advised, Use "WAX for brood.
When time comes to change it out it is no problem.
If you already have some plastic in brood you will see what I mean when you go to take the old comb off the plastic.
Wire is not necessary for brood. Use it in the honey supers.It helps save your comb if you are using an extractor.
Use the HARD plastic for honey and don't worry about blowing your comb out when extracting.
You can start changing over any time you find the outside frames aren't getting any attention.
Take the one on the out side out move the one next it to the out side and put the new frame in second place, or if the other side do it with 9 and 10. If you have 10 frame boxes.

Some will tell you, as will I, do what ever works best for you.
But I have used both for 9 years and I am telling it from experience.
hope this helps.doak

Michael Bush · May 02, 2008, 10:27:36 PM

>But the time needed to properly install wax foundation with wire supports seem so time consuming.

If you get the right tools it's actually pretty easy and quick.

> Are wires embedded in the wax necessary?

They keep the wax from buckling before it gets drawn. Otherwise they don't make that much difference.

> Or only if planned to use an extruder when harvesting?

I extract unwired frames all the time and have since I've had an extractor.

>If I convert to wax foundation, then should this be done to the brood chamber as well, or leave it with plastic foundation?

Once they are drawn they are all the same to the bees. What's your real goal? No plastic? Small cell? Natural cell? You just like the idea of wax better and would like to gradually swap out the plastic?