messy comb issue

Kathyp · May 01, 2008, 05:39:37 PM

one of the hives i cut out in march is building messy comb even though they have new wax foundation to build on. they are building on top of the foundation in clumps. the frames are pushed together, so i have no idea why they are not keeping the proper space. the problem is, that as fast as they build this funky comb, the queen lays in it. i removed one small clump today only to find it was full of eggs.

they are doing a better job of fixing the comb that i took from their hive. i know CW says remove this stuff, but this hive needs to build up. i am leaning toward leaving this stuff alone and trying to move them into newer boxes later or next year.

doak · May 01, 2008, 08:56:14 PM

You need to put some drone foundation or some spare comb "if" you have from last year that has drone cells on it. They are building drone cells. The build these any and every where until they get a certain amount built.
doak

Kathyp · May 01, 2008, 09:00:45 PM

i don't have any. that makes some sense. this hive had more drone cells than the other. they have a lot of capped brood, but i don't remember seeing any drone cells in there except what i might have saved when i took the hive.

what is the explanation for this behavior?

doak · May 02, 2008, 01:18:49 AM

If they don't have enough drone cells on the main foundation they will build then in any vacant place until they get what they want. they will not build drone cells in good worker foundation. If a section gets damaged on the foundation or drawn comb they will repair it with drone cells.
I am starting to put one frame of drone foundation in my brood chambers. If you don't have whole drone frame just get the drone foundation and put it in a regular frame. This shouldn't cause any problem if you are working with medium boxes, "as the drone foundation comes in deep only" just split it down the middle and one piece gives you two frames.
Already have 4 in "one" in each hive, 4 out of 7. :)doak

JP · May 02, 2008, 09:30:24 AM

Quote from: kathyp on May 01, 2008, 05:39:37 PM
one of the hives i cut out in march is building messy comb even though they have new wax foundation to build on. they are building on top of the foundation in clumps. the frames are pushed together, so i have no idea why they are not keeping the proper space. the problem is, that as fast as they build this funky comb, the queen lays in it. i removed one small clump today only to find it was full of eggs.

they are doing a better job of fixing the comb that i took from their hive. i know CW says remove this stuff, but this hive needs to build up. i am leaning toward leaving this stuff alone and trying to move them into newer boxes later or next year.

Kathy, Don, aka fatbeeman says lots of cross comb is a sign of a bad queen. He does a once a yr test, whereby he places an empty shallow frame in the middle of the brood nest. If straight comb and no drone cells, good queen. If cross comb and or drone cells replace queen.

...JP

CBEE · May 02, 2008, 10:49:28 AM

mine dont cross comb but they sure like to make drone comb between supers and other open areas

Kathyp · May 02, 2008, 10:59:21 AM

she is laying like crazy. hard to think she's bad..... + i hate to kill off a queen that i have collected.

the hive in it's original space was very neat.

any hope that when they are oriented to the new hive they will clean up their act?

i was thinking that if i moved the two really messy frames to the outside of the brood nest, and eventually to the outside of the box, i can remove those frames in time. in the mean time, if i replace those frames with starter strips rather than full foundation, might they be encouraged to build straight??

JP · May 02, 2008, 11:08:41 AM

Quote from: kathyp on May 02, 2008, 10:59:21 AM
she is laying like crazy. hard to think she's bad..... + i hate to kill off a queen that i have collected.

the hive in it's original space was very neat.

any hope that when they are oriented to the new hive they will clean up their act?

i was thinking that if i moved the two really messy frames to the outside of the brood nest, and eventually to the outside of the box, i can remove those frames in time. in the mean time, if i replace those frames with starter strips rather than full foundation, might they be encouraged to build straight??

Kathy, I'm with you on that. I would try and get them to straighten up their act before requeening. I'm just echoing what Don says. Good luck! I hate messy combs, fafa foo foo.

...JP

Kathyp · May 09, 2008, 06:06:42 PM

doak, spot on with the drone cells. all the funky comb is drone cells. two good frames of brood, so i'll just work those messed up frames out eventually.

derrick1p1 · May 09, 2008, 06:12:52 PM

Thanks for the discussion. This explains why I found drones cells in a couple of frames of drawn comb that I accidentally damaged. They must have repaired it with drone cells.

Thanks,
Derrick

annette · May 09, 2008, 06:34:05 PM

So now I have a question about this. I am starting a new package tomorrow on all starter strips. Do you think it would be wise to place a couple of frames of drone brood into this super before I dump the bees in the super????

I certainly have enough drone brood to spare from my laying worker hive.

Thanks in advance for the reply
Annette

Ross · May 09, 2008, 09:26:09 PM

Drone comb is not the sign of a bad queen. All hives need some drone comb. It's the way they reproduce, wouldn't you. Let them have some and they'll go back to building worker comb. If they don't like foundation, give them some empty frames with center guides and see what they do.

Kathyp · May 09, 2008, 09:44:02 PM

i am not worried about the drone comb. i was a little concerned that i might have lost the queen from this cutout. on 2nd inspection, i find plenty of worker brood. i will work the messy comb out of the hive as they hatch out the drones.