Aerial congregation

Dane Bramage · May 05, 2008, 10:59:36 PM

Greetings all,

I witnessed a new (to me) phenomenon today in the wetlands adjacent my apiary. There was a pretty massive grouping of bees flying about in an approximately 30-yard sphere, 30-60 feet from the ground. It definitely did not look like a swarm - though there is one of those in a tree (about 60' up in a willow) near as well. I've got 30+ strong hives going now here and have not seen any of them swarm. The all seem queen-right as of yesterday, recheck today as well. So I've a few question I'm hopeful the forum might be able to help me resolve.

1 - has anyone experienced the sort of aerial congregation I've described? Could it be breeding area, very unorganized swarm or something else?

2 - does having a larger apiary attract feral bees/swarms? I'm near certain that none of my hives swarmed. I watch them every day and we've only had a few nice days. Which brings me to q#3

3 - how fast can a swarm exit the hive and with little to no advanced warning signs? When a swarm does leave a hive does the left behind hive make that tell-tale queen-less hum? or is it most common for the swarming hive to already have a virgin queen on standby?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!
~Dane

<~ active hives on the terrace today, first 10 (from R to L) are being transitioned to top entrance for pollen collection.

doak · May 05, 2008, 11:13:38 PM

They can leave in a small time without showing sign of swarming.
What you described sounds like a swarm ( in flight) could be from somewhere else.
If you are within a good distance, say a couple hundred ft,of your colonies, you would hear them leaving
the hive.doak

Dane Bramage · May 05, 2008, 11:42:19 PM

I've been within 20' of the hives most of the past two days, taking advantage of the lovely weather to work in the yard and inspect, super-up & add pollen traps. I did not hear nor see any mass exodus.
I'm still unsure on that big aerial group... it seemed way too diffuse to be a swarm and I didn't see them attempt to cluster anywhere. The weather just cooled considerably, winds picking up (and it's suppose to be a good 15° cooler tomorrow). I'll go see if I can locate a 2nd swarm. At any rate - there is one swarm near by so I've put out a swarm trap ready & waiting for them; an empty single deep with drawn comb and all primed with lemongrass essential oil. We'll see if I can catch one (or more, lol).

Cheers,
Dane

annette · May 06, 2008, 12:00:56 AM

Well when my hive swarmed last summer, the hive just carried on as normal and they made another queen, only to become queenless a couple of months later.

Good Luck figuring this out

Annette

doak · May 06, 2008, 12:39:34 AM

When in flight they are not clustered so close.
Looks like a very thin cloud or some thin fog going through the air.
Not in a close nit mass, could even resemble a small thin cloud of smoke.
The movement is graceful looking.
Best I can describe it.doak

Dane Bramage · May 06, 2008, 01:27:44 AM

thanks - yes, this looked nothing like a swarm. It was a very large area with seemingly no bees flying the same direction - definitely not flying in formation or any cloud. I walked out there and stood under the area... just a lot of bees randomly flying around. Not thick nor cloud-like, but really busy. all the footage I've seen of swarms flying is a tighter mass than this, not a flying cluster but like that "cloud" description. This looked more like some bee-superhighway intersection or something - a big area (30 yards across or so). Still a mystery.

Kathyp · May 06, 2008, 02:18:27 AM

you have a lot of hives. maybe you have a wide flight area to and from your hives :-)

randydrivesabus · May 06, 2008, 06:28:51 AM

was it drones?

Dane Bramage · May 06, 2008, 11:25:57 AM

Kathyp ~> I was thinking same, possibly... there are quite a few trees nearer the hives as well. It almost seemed like a "hub" (airline analogy) or orientation area out in the closest, more-open area.

randydrivesabus ~> That was my first thought and what I was looking for. I was able to pick out quite a few drones (as best as I was able when they're flying at speed & distance) but it was definitely not exclusively drones. I'm not sure that was it but I'm curious about the dynamics of bee breeding areas.

Thanks for all the replies!! :)

Ross · May 06, 2008, 11:28:40 AM

Drone congregation area and mating queen would be my guess. Often some workers will accompany the queen on her flight.

KONASDAD · May 06, 2008, 11:51:42 AM

My guess if it perists over a few days or happens again in same location, a drone congregation area. If only once, it was part of the swarm nearby and they were awaiting the signal to leave.

Dane Bramage · May 06, 2008, 12:02:29 PM

I'm leaning towards that (drone congregation). I'll keep an eye out... much cooler today though (high of 61 forecast vs the 78 yesterday).
The nearby swarm did not grow in size at end of day... it looks like a 3-4 lb swarm. If ALL those bees from the congregation area were part of it... wow - it'd be 3-4x as large. I'll go back down to the area and scope it out later today. Whatever it is/was - I'm glad it didn't take place in some neighbor's yard! :evil:

BMAC · May 06, 2008, 12:44:37 PM

So are you gonna climb the willow and capture the swarm??????

Maybe time to invest in a 60 ft pole so you can attach a bucket to it....

Dane Bramage · May 06, 2008, 01:28:42 PM

BMAC ~> I could - I have my climbing/repelling gear and could feed up a line and do SRT (single rope tech) easily enough. I thought about shooting a bow and tree-entry arrow and just hoisting the swarm trap up nearer it - but I'm sorta lazy/busy, so the trap is just up on my balcony. That swarm is gonna have to get off it's limb and come on down if it wants to join the party. Otherwise it's cold, cold nights & wet rains up there in the tree-tops! ;)

BMAC · May 06, 2008, 02:39:37 PM

true enough. The swarm I knocked out of the tree last night was only about 20 feet up. No biggie, for a monkey to rip up the tree and kick the branch... :-D

Good to hear your 30 colonies are strong...

poka-bee · May 06, 2008, 03:53:07 PM

Dane, I love your pic, the pup looks so sweet, & such a pretty color! That would be cool if you can see a drone congragation area, do you have binocs or something else to see whats going on closer?? How informative! My best friend lives in Battleground & I have a bunch of other friends in the Vancouver,Portland, Hillsboro, Gresham areas. You aren't that far from the Trunk Monkey place!!(well, closer than I...) Jody

Brian D. Bray · May 08, 2008, 12:21:39 AM

With even just a moderate flow and 30 hives I would expect to see a cloud of bees out to 100 yards from you hives on a warm clear day. My mentor had several yards with 30-50 hives in each. On clear warm days the cloud of bees would be awesome. It thinned out away from the hive and closer to the hive but there was a band of very dense bees about 50 feet in front and 20-30 above of the hives and they made their way to their respective hive, it was a traffic congestion area as bees went from hive to forage area. In the mid-afternoon when the orientation flights began the band would expand out to 100 feet in front of the hives.

CBEE · May 08, 2008, 09:48:59 AM

As to how quick it happens. I stood and watched mine as they poured out of the hive and made a swirling cloud about 20 yards high and land about 40 yards away all in less than 10 min. I was suprized how quick it happened. If I would not have seen it happen ,I would have never known as the hive acted normal after the swarm left with bees coming and going with no difference in attitude.

Dane Bramage · May 08, 2008, 11:50:10 AM

Thanks Jody/poka-bee! I was standing directly underneath the area and had a pretty good and close vantage. Bees everywhere and nothing really to focus in on. What is the trunk monkey place?? :lol:

Brian ~ thanks and you're description is spot-on to what I observed = traffic congestion. That makes a lot of sense too as they're leaving & returning and doing a bit of orientation/navigation. It really is an awesome thing to witness! I imagine it will be going on all summer as soon as it warms up consistently here. It hasn't been as nice as that day again yet but there are 80° days forecast soon. 8-) I'll be moving more hives from the upper apiary terrace area down to the lower deck, about 16 in each area, and hopefully that will alleviate the congestion a bit.

CBEE ~ that quick eh? Perhaps that one swarm, that's still up in the willow top today, is one of mine. I can't tell any loss from inspections but I could probably split most all my hives and still get production this year. The one's from the almonds came out strong! That swarm could have been there for some time prior as well... no idea as I only spotted it by chance. It's pretty small, fairly concealed and way up there! ;)

Cheers,
Dane

Greg Peck · May 08, 2008, 04:13:38 PM

I had a similar experience the other day. At my one bee yard I have 5 hives. Myself and another guy were standing about 100 yards from the hives and heard a bunch of buzzing over head. I looked up and saw a very thin cloud of bees I estimated maybe 50 to 100 there were flying in the same direction about 30 feet off the ground. They headed for a wooded area and I ran to see if I could see them land thinking they were a swarm. But once they got to the wooded area they were just gone. I check my hives and they seemed just as strong as last week when I did some splits. there should be some new queens around so maybe it was a mating thing.