Two problems fixed with one solution?

[IndianaBrown]

Please check my logic on this:

Problem 1:
I have a long hive (23 frame) that has been queenless since at least the middle of March.  I gave them a frame of eggs and larva from my other long hive then.  This bolstered them a bit but they did not raise a queen. They did raise some drones on their own, but seem to have stopped raising any more since then.  They are down to around 2 to 3 frames of bees.  Two weeks ago I purchased a queen for this hive.  After 4 days they were only about halfway through the candy but they seemed to like her so I released her.  She crawled down between the frames and there was no sign that they wanted to attack her.  However, 10 days later there were no larva or eggs. They have collected some nectar and a little pollen. Wax moths are starting to threaten this hive. 

Problem 2:
I have an observation hive that I built that is 3 deeps wide and 2 deeps high.  It is populated with bees that I got from a very late swarm call last year.  The swarm partially built out the bottom 3 frames last fall, (from starter strips.) This spring they have completed drawing out the bottom three frames, including some drone cells on one frame, and are now working on 2 swarm cells.  All 3 frames are packed with a mix of eggs, larva, sealed brood, and a little honey/pollen.  The bees are now packed tight on the bottom frames.  I am not sure why they are not moving up to the top frames but otherwise these bees are great: almost violently hygienic, lots of grooming, great housekeeping, zero mites, and the queen seems to be a great layer.


There are several ways I could go about this, but here is my current thinking:

As soon as the swarm cups begin to grow, (probably in a day or two based on the activity around them,) I plan to take the queen, the frame that does not have a swarm cell, and some extra bees out of the observation hive.  I will move the other 2 frames up.  The remaining 4 frames will have starter strips.  This should relieve the swarm pressure, and I can watch them raise a pair of queens.
 
I will put the queen and frame in a 10 frame box along with one or two frames of honey/nectar, 4 or 5 more empty drawn (and mothless) frames, and fill the rest with empty frames with a starter strips.  Then I will shake the queenless bees into this, and put the half full honey super on top, placing them back where the queenless hive is currently.  I am considering putting a cage over the queen (along with a few workers) just in case.

Am I missing anything?  Any other suggestions?  Feedback appreciated, thanks.

[Michael Bush]

Problem 1:
Laying workers?
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm
If they have laying workers they will not start a queen until about the third time of giving them some eggs and open brood once a week.

Problem 2:
If the cells have not begun to grow, at this point they are just cups.  They may not make them into cells.  Unless and until they do, I wouldn't pay any attention to them.  A queen cell is quickly extended down longer.  An empty cup is not.

[IndianaBrown]

Problem 1:
Laying workers?

That was my suspicion.  I was not aware that it could take several weeks/frames of eggs for a laying worker hive to decide to raise a queen.  (I need to read through your site again it seems.) I would have kept trying anyhow, except that I was able to pick up a queen at a local beek meeting.  Looks like I wasted my money though.

Problem 2:
If the cells have not begun to grow, at this point they are just cups.  They may not make them into cells.  Unless and until they do, I wouldn't pay any attention to them.  A queen cell is quickly extended down longer.  An empty cup is not.

I just got home and with the field force in I can't see the cups through all the bees at the moment.  But yesterday I thought the cups looked longer than the empty cups I sometimes see in my other hives, and I could see nurse bees in and out of them behaving like they do when they are feeding larva.  However now I can wait a bit longer until I am sure...

To complicate my potential solutions, I got a swarm call today.  :)  It was a grapefruit sized swarm about 9 feet up.  The bees are very small and very light colored, (some look strawberry blond if you can believe it.)  They will spend a day or two in a cardboard 5 frame nuc box while I rethink my options.  At this point I may just shake out the queenless bees and put the swarm in it's place.  Then if the ob hive is really going to swarm I could whip up a 2 or 3 frame nuc box and do a split to bank the queen.

[Brian D. Bray]

The swarm call is your solution, combine your problem hive with it.