laying worker

ConfedMarine · May 13, 2008, 09:18:45 AM

I looked back through some past discussions concerning laying workers. They seemed to be talking about identifying whether or not someone has a laying worker. What I would like to know the remedy for replacing laying workers with a queen.Thanks

BeeHopper · May 13, 2008, 09:36:42 AM

Quote from: ConfedMarine on May 13, 2008, 09:18:45 AM
I looked back through some past discussions concerning laying workers. They seemed to be talking about identifying whether or not someone has a laying worker. What I would like to know the remedy for replacing laying workers with a queen.Thanks

Here's what I did last week, keep in mind that I have not yet checked my hive to see if I succeeded. Take your drone layer hive about 100 plus yards away from original location, dump all the bees out, what few bees you still have on the combs make sure they are not workers. Return hive to the original location, there will be a traffic jam at the entrance. Supposedly, the laying worker(s) cannot find their way back, insert Queen Cage.

Scadsobees · May 13, 2008, 09:54:31 AM

I've only had one episode, but it was cured by a couple of swarm cells that I placed in there. 3 weeks later and there was a laying queen.

You could try putting frames of eggs and broood in there every week until they create a queen emergency cell.

Laying worker hives are notoriously hard to deal with, and the last ditch effort would be to do similar to what Beehopper suggested except you dump the bees and the return to other hives and you start over with a split or new hive.

Rick

BeeHopper · May 13, 2008, 01:02:58 PM

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. To my knowledge, the first corrective action is to RID the laying worker(s). Once she is out of the picture, I can see the other corrective actions ( new queen or a frame of eggs, larvae and young workers ) having a better chance at success. I agree that laying workers are a pain. :-x

Brian D. Bray · May 13, 2008, 06:59:41 PM

A laying worker hive has more than one laying worker, that is one of the major reasons you find so many eggs in each cell, multiple layers. Laying workers also lay on the side of the cell not dead center as will a queen.

There are a few ways to handle a laying worker hive. The best, IMO, is to put frame(s) of brood in the hive and let the workers build queen cells. the earlier this is done after noticing a laying worker condition the better. It also can take as many as 4-5 tries before they build the queen cells but will usually do it on the third time around. Once queen cells are found the have can be requeened at about a 50% success rate. It is better to let them raise the queen.
The have can be combined with a queen right hive but this has some risk to the existing queen.
Shake it out and let the bees migrate to any other hive in the bee yard.
Put a hive with a brood frame in the same place as the laying worker hive and move the laying worker hive. The foragers will return to the new hive and create a queen or can be requeened fairly readily. The rest of the laying worker hive can then be shook out and dispersed. this, IMO, is the 2nd best way to handle the problem.

Michael Bush · May 13, 2008, 11:14:37 PM

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm

BeeHopper · May 14, 2008, 12:59:57 PM

Quote from: Michael Bush on May 13, 2008, 11:14:37 PM
http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm

I will try some of those methods if I continue to have a problem.

Thanks MB :)

annette · May 17, 2008, 01:22:49 AM

This is something I am presently dealing with and have been giving the hive frames of open brood and eggs every week. This is my third week and I will check tomorrow to see if they made the queen cell. If not, I will continue to give them open brood once or twice more and then shake them out after that.

ConfedMarine · May 19, 2008, 09:03:38 AM

Thanks to everyone that replied. I went out of town shortly after my post, sorry
I took so long to reply. I am going back into this hive today to see what the latest conditions are.

derrick1p1 · May 19, 2008, 01:03:14 PM

I realized yesterday that I now have a laying worker hive. I intend to follow the simple method suggested by Michael Bush. I will remove the hive, shake and let them drift to the remaining hives.

I have 2 questions:

a) will this hive harm the current queen (I assume they will most likely will drift back to the hive that is closest to thier current location). The queen in that hive is new and has just begun laying.

b) What to do with all of the drone brood? Divide it amongst the other hives? I assume if a hive is over saturated with drones, they will refuse some of them to return to the hive and will not feed/support them.

Thanks,
Derrick

annette · May 19, 2008, 01:09:06 PM

I also followed MB advice and introduced a frame of open brood and eggs once a week for 3 weeks. Guess what??? They finally made 2 queen cells. I believe they are on the right track now.

Apparently, the open brood suppresses the laying workers.

Good luck
Annette

Shawn · July 30, 2008, 04:20:51 PM

Ok as some of you know from my post in the puicture area that I too may have a laying worker hive. I only have one hive at this time so now what. I read Michael Bush's website but it talks about having mutiple hives and the other methods dont work all that well. If I do the shake away from the hive is it true that the layuing wrokers will not return? I feel at this time its my only choice unless someone has another idea. Im going deep into the hive today to really check things out.

My second question is: if the queen had died or is not doing good what keeps the bees from producing a queen cell or superceding her? I have not seen any queen cells or supercedure cells since Ive had the hive.

Michael Bush · July 30, 2008, 07:51:49 PM

>If I do the shake away from the hive is it true that the layuing wrokers will not return?

Yes they will.

>My second question is: if the queen had died or is not doing good what keeps the bees from producing a queen cell or superceding her?

They almost always do, but sometimes the cell doesn't emerge, or the virgin doesn't return from mating.

Shawn · July 31, 2008, 02:21:05 AM

Ok I looked into the bottom deep hive body. I was surprised with all the honey that was in there. I did see a lot of drones on both the top and bottom hive bodies. I saw little bee heads poking out from the capped cells but Im too new at this to tell if they were drones or workers. Im posting pictures of the frames from the bottom hive body in the picture area.

Michael Bush · July 31, 2008, 07:56:55 AM

>Im too new at this to tell if they were drones or workers. Im posting pictures of the frames from the bottom hive body in the picture area.

Drones are noticeably bug eyed and if you wait for them to emerge, they are also blunt on the abdomen and have no stinger, where a worker is not nearly as bug eyed and has a pointy abdomen with a stinger.

Scadsobees · July 31, 2008, 10:03:41 AM

Shawn,
I noticed from your pics that something happened to the queen. The question is: did a new one hatch and mate and start laying successfully. A young queen can sometimes take a little time to get going.

The old brood pattern was very bad. However, in at least one of the pictures there was a frame of very young brood.

I'd recommend that you hold off for about a week and a half till that brood starts getting capped. That will really validate what is happening - flat cappings = workers = :) .... domed cappings = drones = :(

Rick

Shawn · July 31, 2008, 12:43:57 PM

Thanks. I thought I saw a queen and tried to get a picture to post but my daughter was not following directions to well. SHe was a lot longer than the rest, no dot of paint, and she had long wings, none were cut. I have a beek coming over tooday to take a look. I noticed there were two maybe three frames in the bottom hive body that were not used yet. Would it be ok to take the two frames, the ones that dont look so good, from the top and put them in place of the unsued frames below and then take the top hive body off until they complete all the frames?

Scadsobees · July 31, 2008, 01:45:40 PM

Yes, you can move all of the drawn comb to one box with the bees. In fact, if they are weak it is highly recommended.

Was your old queen marked and clipped?

Shawn · July 31, 2008, 02:16:27 PM

Ok Just got done looking over the hive with another beek. He said all the cells, capped and not capped are drone, and he did not see any queen. :-\ Im ordering a goldline queen and should have it here next week. I also learned my lesson about starting up with only one hive, not good. I know there was a post about how many to start up and two was the minimum, but did I listen....No. :'( Well lesson learned and Im just waiting for a new queen.