new hive installed- first 1!

debay · May 16, 2008, 12:29:28 AM

I had it all planned out. I made sure I was off from work on the day my bees came in and I had an old timer scheduled to help me set up the hive. Then I get a note on my desk telling me I get to go off to school for a week. Great. Missed my package installation. :-x Well, the old codger came anyway and set me up. He came back and checked the queen and he reported that all was well. 10 days after they were installed I took my first peek in a hive. I was expecting to be mauled as it was my first time EVER in a hive. I got my veil on and got the smoker rolling and did my best at doing what I have read and seen. The girls were calm and decided to play nice on my first attempt. I was able to successfully handle the frames without incident. Not a single sting!!

I have no standard of comparison to measure their growth with. They have 3-4 frames nearly drawn and have started on several others. I found "THE", or "A" queen and also something that gave me pause. Ill get to both those comments in a bit. The only real scare I had was when I turned a frame and the bottom of the foundation pulled out. luckily the top of the foundation stayed attached and didnt come loose. It did cause a bit of a stir on that frame though. I just knew I was gonna get hit. But they immediately calmed down and all was well. I wasnt able to fix the foundation so I had to put it back as-is. When I add the second Brood Super, I will replace that one with a new frame, smoke/shake the bees off of it and trim it back out to hang straight on the frame and then just stick it in the new super.

Now, I said a found "A" queen. I found one, and she wasnt marked. I ordered a marked Queen. She was running hard and was on the frame that came loose so I didnt dwell on her lack of paint for long. But I also found something else on that frame. A Queen cell. I know Im new to B-keeping, but I have seen enough to know it wasnt a drone cell. it was protruding from the side of the foundation in a cluster of nearly finished comb and was distinctively the beginning of a downward facing queen cell. I wasnt sure what to do at the time so I marked the frame for latter reference. I spoke to the old codger who helped me and he suggested that I cut it out. So, a couple of hours later I decided to go ahead and do it. I located the cell and cut it mostly apart. It was on that damaged frame and on the side that made it push out when I tried to cut it more thoroughly. I gave up when I had the cell fairly mauled.

Why would my new package bees start the Queen cell? I tried to see if she was laying. When I did see her for a brief instant, she was tail down in a cell. I never could see any eggs/larva, but it could just be that Im new. I did see a lot of cells with liquid in them. I could also see some pollen stores. The girls that are coming back in all seem to be bringing in food. I also have two jars of syrup going. I know its overkill, but I was out of town and I knew my wife wasnt going to go out there and change th jar, lol. So, if anyone could offer some advice on why I may have a queen cell popping up, please cough it up.

Brian D. Bray · May 16, 2008, 01:10:15 AM

QuoteWhy would my new package bees start the Queen cell? I tried to see if she was laying. When I did see her for a brief instant, she was tail down in a cell. I never could see any eggs/larva, but it could just be that Im new. I did see a lot of cells with liquid in them. I could also see some pollen stores. The girls that are coming back in all seem to be bringing in food. I also have two jars of syrup going. I know its overkill, but I was out of town and I knew my wife wasnt going to go out there and change th jar, lol. So, if anyone could offer some advice on why I may have a queen cell popping up, please cough it up.

If the packaged bees are starting queen cells it is because they believe something is wrong with the queen they have. They will continue to attempt to supercede her until they are successful so my advice is let them. Frustrated bees get proddy and the hive doesn't develop as it should.

indypartridge · May 16, 2008, 08:04:19 AM

Quote from: Brian D. Bray on May 16, 2008, 01:10:15 AM
If the packaged bees are starting queen cells it is because they believe something is wrong with the queen they have. They will continue to attempt to supercede her until they are successful so my advice is let them. Frustrated bees get proddy and the hive doesn't develop as it should.

And sometimes it seems like the bees just like to have a queen cell there "on standby".

Brian D. Bray · May 17, 2008, 10:42:49 PM

Quote from: indypartridge on May 16, 2008, 08:04:19 AM
Quote from: Brian D. Bray on May 16, 2008, 01:10:15 AM
If the packaged bees are starting queen cells it is because they believe something is wrong with the queen they have. They will continue to attempt to supercede her until they are successful so my advice is let them. Frustrated bees get proddy and the hive doesn't develop as it should.
And sometimes it seems like the bees just like to have a queen cell there "on standby".

Very True, but not usually right out of the package. Standby queen cells, in my experience, don't usually show up until the original box is drawn out or 30 days, whichever comes first. =)

debay · May 19, 2008, 03:16:05 PM

I just checked it again today. The queen cell is repaired but it hasnt grown any. They have almost fully filled out about 4 frames. I wasnt able to see my "marked" queen but I did see eggs. they were anchored in the center of the cells (one per cell) and kind of sticking up. They are also capping honey in the tops and corners of the frames. Is this a normal working speed? it has been just a smidge over 12 days. Thanks for the feedback guys

Moonshae · May 19, 2008, 04:33:32 PM

Sounds about right. After a month or so they should be ready for another box. Remember, for the first 3 weeks, the population dwindles until new bees emerge to replace them...so work slows down over those first couple weeks until the youngins start coming.

debay · May 20, 2008, 04:27:12 AM

yeah I noticed a difference in them today. They were very subdued. There was no frantic running around on the foundation and they all seemed very preoccupied. Not that they shouldnt be, its just that on the first go round they were moving around a lot. the nany bees seem to be doing well on the combs. I didnt take any pics this time, but they were spread out and filled the whole frame. Im still amazed at how they react, or rather how they dont react to my presence. I know im going to have to pay the taxes soon, but so far, no stings! I know its coming, but for now Ill relish in the fact that Im pain free for now. im wishing more and more that I had gotten two hives instead of one. Ill have a top Bar next year. Ive seen those paired with regular supers and I hear they do very well.

Michael Bush · May 21, 2008, 07:33:16 AM

Is there an egg or larvae in the queen "cell"? Is the "cell" just a round shape facing down? A queen cell has a larvae in it and looks like a peanut pointing down. A round shape facing down with no egg or larvae is just a queen cup. Bees build these all the time. They don't mean anything.

debay · May 25, 2008, 02:36:37 PM

I didnt look inside for some reason. Im not sure if there is a larva in it or not. I did check again the other day and I have capped brood!! I was happy to see it thats for sure. The queen cell/cup seems to be virtually abandoned. That frame has shown little growth. In fact, they have all shown little growth. I think that since they have capped brood that the ones needed for wax making are nannies. Im assuming that once the new bees come out that they will assume nanny duty and the old girls will resume making comb. Either way Im still showing progress and cant wait to see what new progress they have made. If they kick up comb production I can add a super shortly. I do have a quick question. When Im in the hive should I expect the bees to start gathering in large numbers at the front of the hive? And is there a certain pitch to their buzzing that I should be looking for? The last time I was in the hive, I noticed more than the normal number out front flying in a big group and they sounded absolutely mean. But, being new, that could be normal.

debay · June 11, 2008, 06:50:41 PM

well, it seems my hive has taken one big step forward and two back. I had hatching brood and a few full frames of it. Now I have frames full of nectar and honey and no new eggs. I only have a little bit of larva left with lots of drone cells popping up everywhere. Not only that, I have queen cells with full size larva all over the place. It seems my hive is in distress. Anyone in the area of Newport NC? I could use some advice and a trained eye. My thinking is to allow the queens to go ahead and grow up. Its too late for a swarm I hope. There is one sizeable queen cell with a large white thing in it, Im sure its only a few days from being capped. If I go back in next week and find it open Im going to kill off the other queen cells to try and limit the chances of a swarm.

randydrivesabus · June 11, 2008, 06:55:39 PM

i think the newly hatched queen will take care of the others for you.

qa33010 · June 13, 2008, 02:38:04 AM

If the cells are ALL over as in towards the top, around the center and towards the bottom and, mine have, on different frames then they would normally be emergengy cells. In my case that meant we didn't get the queen on a cutout once and they made a new one. The second was from me crushing her when I thought she was not on that frame and I didn't know about removeing one or two outside farmes first to minumize that from happening.

I would not remove any of the cells. You aren't sure which queen they want. I watched two virgin queens in the same frame, both in the middle, and believe it or not, one it seemed like was being held in her cell by the workers and the other was being touched by antenna of the workers around her cell as she worked on her emergence. I thought they were mostly ignored until bred, but an older beek told me that the workers can very easily decide which they want. Unfortunately he has since passed and with him, more great stories. These were the only queen cells and the older queen was not seen. I was mesmerized for a little while watching this. So if it's me I'ld leave the cells alone. I would just watch later for a laying queen to make sure she survives her mating flights.

Now there are many wiser and more experienced heads than mine here. So they should guide you correctly if I'm steering you wrong.

debay · September 10, 2008, 04:15:41 AM

What a time my girls have been through.....
Since my last post I have enjoyed one single stint of good times and that is it. I was having queen issues when it became 100% apparent that I did not have a queen and the new hatchlings were not laying. I called a semi-local queen rearer and he advised that I give them two weeks to see if the hatched queens will mate and to put some brood in there if at all possible. I gave them three weeks and two full frames of brood. At three weeks I ordered the queen, went to install her and boom, I had capped brood........ I sold the queen to a buddy and was happy to have growing bees again(that one single stint of good times). Then a few weeks later, more queen cups. I thought it was an individual thing so I cut the first one out. Then I found bunches(left them). About 4-5 if I recall. So I let them requeen at will. I also decided to add a second deep for brood since they were nearly complete with the bottom deep and were laying brood. Since May 5th 2008 they still have yet to fill out that bottom box. :? I gave them a few weeks in the second deep with ZERO comb production so I decided to remove it to "force the last few frames into production. My bee population was small enough so as not to crowd them. I had also found several full sized queen cells.

So I take the deep off, set it on the ground, and see tons of bees refusing to leave the super. So I smoke them. A lot. A whole lot. I get em good and riled up and realize Im not doing any good so I leave em to their own devices. 30 minutes later I look out and see a swarm. I give them time and start prepping a catch bucket. As they simmer down I find them on a lower branch of a gum tree and bump them in the bucket. Like a fool, I open the hive, and dump em right in. World War 3 will look a little like what I saw that day. Bad move.

Apparently I had a hatched queen hiding in the super I took off. I took her way from the hive body, I smoked her out in the open, and I restricted the space inside the main hive making the workers buzz about in the air exposed to this new homeless queen. then to add insult to injury I tried putting the swarm back in the hive. So I had a supercedure queen that may have been the savior of my hive. Then I ruined her and a good two handful of bees.

Im still not sure why my girls are so hard on wanting to replace every queen they get, but lesson learned- let them do it. I also learned that two hives is better than one. I would have combined hives a long time ago after all this crap. I learned not to smoke too heavily and to not make drastic changes in the bee habitat. Especially all at the same time. And I also learned NOT to put a swarm back in a hive if they even remotely have the possibility of having a queen. I also learned a few tricks about how to put a small swarm back in without causing the guards to kill the non-queen females. Not that I may ever need it again, but I learned something new none the less.