Getting Ready to Requeen

mgmoore7 · May 20, 2008, 10:19:53 AM

I have 4 hives now, 1 is queenless and has been for several weeks. This hive went queenless after it swarmed. The origonal queen/swarm was recaptured and is doing well but very agressive as it was before swarming.

I just extracted about 6 gallons of honey from the spring flow. Hopefully, I will get another 3-5 gallons at the end of the summer.

For the queenless hive, I believe I am planning to do a shakeout since it may have a laying worker by now. Not sure, they pretty much had filled the brood box with pollen and honey when I looked at it two Sat ago. There would be very little room for the new queen to lay. Last saturday, I removed 3 very old brood frames and replaced them with new foundation frames in hopes they would start building them out and be ready for the new queen.

Have any suggestions for me regarding requeening this hive? Should be simple except that they have been queenless for at least 4 weeks now and could have a laying worker. Is about 15 yards away enough for the shakeout? I am also planning on moving over some brood from another hive if I can find only capped brood but my queens have not been very good at laying a nice pattern.

For the other 3 hives: One was the swarm and it is doing well but very agressive. One other has produded virtually no surplus and has been a very poor pattern. The last one is doing well but the queen is probably more than 2 years old and I am wanting to get all my queens be of more gentle breed.

So what is the process to requeen these 3 hives that have queens. Kill the queen, wait overnight and then introduce? Any other suggestions for me?

mgmoore7 · May 20, 2008, 11:30:09 AM

Ok, after bunch of reading on laying worker hives....

Regarding the queenless hive (unless I see no evidence of laying workes which is unlikely at this point I would think):
I see two options considering my new queens will be here today or tomorrow and can only keep them for so long and I don't want to waste her..
1. Shake out the queenless hive in front of the other hives, wait a couple days and then make a split for the new queen.
2. Make a split for the new queen and start introducing open brood into the queenless hive until they cap a queen cell, then reintroduce the queen from the split into this hive after killing the queen cells.

Seems to me that option 1 is simpler and probably less chance of issues.
What do you think?

BMAC · May 20, 2008, 12:06:57 PM

what evidence are you going to look for when checking for a laying worker?

mgmoore7 · May 20, 2008, 12:28:17 PM

Quote from: BMAC on May 20, 2008, 12:06:57 PM
what evidence are you going to look for when checking for a laying worker?

Multiple eggs, drone brood...

Scadsobees · May 20, 2008, 01:20:24 PM

You may or may not see multiple eggs, I didn't when I had a laying worker. Worker comb full of drone brood is a good giveaway, though.

Requeening: get rid of the old queens, wait an hour (or a few), then spray the hive bees with scented sugar water(spearmint, HBH, etc) and put the new queen cage in. If you wait too long then they start emergency cells, and that can inhibit queen acceptance too. That's my way, but there are many others out there.

Laying worker problem...first verify that you do in fact have a laying worker. They backfill the brood boxes when they are ready to swarm, and it can take several weeks for the new queen to get up to speed laying. If you had a swarm, there were probably swarm cells (unless you got rid of them) and one of those would have hatched.

If it has laying workers, then I would make a small split from your other hives, introduce the queen to it, and then when she's laying good, put it where the laying worker hive was and shake those all a ways away from the new split hive. Then the foragers and workers will return to the old spot and join the new hive.

just my $.02

Rick

mgmoore7 · May 20, 2008, 02:31:35 PM

There were swarm cells that had hatched but I am guessing that the queen did not make it back or did not succesfully mate???

Eitherway, I will confirm if there is a queen or laying workers.

mgmoore7 · May 20, 2008, 09:32:59 PM

I inspected this queenless hive this afternoon and there is no evidense of a laying working. Is it possible that the laying workers have not got started yet?

I would estimate I am about 2-3 weeks from all the brood hatching from what the swarm left.

Michael Bush · May 21, 2008, 07:26:18 AM

>Have any suggestions for me regarding requeening this hive?

There is nothing simple about requeening a laying worker hive.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#requeening

The most reliable introduction method:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#pushincage

mgmoore7 · May 21, 2008, 10:51:39 AM

Quote from: Michael Bush on May 21, 2008, 07:26:18 AM
>Have any suggestions for me regarding requeening this hive?

There is nothing simple about requeening a laying worker hive.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#requeening

The most reliable introduction method:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#pushincage

Thanks Michael. I was looking for that push in cage description. I made 4 last night but they are smaller. I may make some that are bigger.

I read your pages over and over and decided to eliminate the hive and make a nuc to save the 4th queen. That was until I took a look at it last night and saw no evidence of a laying workers yet. My local inspector is going to come out tomorrow and help me find the queens and check this queenless hive. I am so glad to have the inspector around to help.

Michael Bush · May 24, 2008, 10:12:48 PM

A typical push in cage is 4" by 4". I like the bigger ones as it's easier to give the queen some honey, some emerging brood and some room to lay...

mgmoore7 · May 24, 2008, 10:23:27 PM

Once my inspector come on Thursday, he confirmed the idea that there were no laying workers yet they were queenless. We immediately installed a queen.

The next 2 hives, we found the queen quickly and I jarred both of them for my son (7yrs) to look at them. Those 2 hives, I put the new queen in about 3-4 hours later. One of them I noticed they already started some queen cells.

The forth hive; we never found the queen. We resorted to a complete shake out about 40 feet away. We would have gone further away but in a residential area, I don't have many options. I checked this hive about 24 hours later and they had started queen cells, so I knew they were queenless at that point. I installed the queen.

I am hoping for the best on all of these.

Thanks for your help.