East Texas honey....

Ross · May 24, 2008, 11:27:57 AM

I checked my Paris hives yesterday. We found about 250 pounds of capped honey on 3 hives and another 4 or 5 hives not yet capped. They were all pushing the queen down, backfilling the upper brood frames with honey as they hatch out.

It was an interesting study. I have my hives side by side with my friend and mentor. He's on solid bottoms and uses wired foundation. I'm on screens and use foundationless. We both supered the same day this spring. I added 2 boxes of foundationless to my strong hives, he added 2 of foundation. As of yesterday, all of my supers were fully drawn and capped. His were 2/3 drawn and uncapped. My hives might have been stronger going in, but not obviously. The hives are 10 feet apart. I had a friend working with me and we were both wondering about the obvious difference in what the hives had accomplished. I make no claims at this time as to why the difference.

Oh, and one more thing. ALL of the hives hate the big Stihl weed killer.

I loaded almost all of my home hives on the trailer last night and sent them to my friends acreage. He has probably 300 acres of vetch in full bloom right now. I'm going to leave them on the trailer there for a few weeks until the vetch is done, the go to mesquite if it blooms.

Brian D. Bray · May 24, 2008, 10:42:31 PM

Your experience is not uncommon for those who switch from the old standard set up to SBB and foundationless frames. The bees will draw foundationless out faster because they can festoon and draw it naturally and communicate in the process. Foundation prohibits communication between sides of the frame and the bees draw in out unevenly and at different places on the same frame at the same time. Foundationless lets the bees be more efficient, which is why they work it better.

Scott Derrick · May 24, 2008, 11:25:14 PM

Quote from: Brian D. Bray on May 24, 2008, 10:42:31 PM
Your experience is not uncommon for those who switch from the old standard set up to SBB and foundationless frames. The bees will draw foundationless out faster because they can festoon and draw it naturally and communicate in the process. Foundation prohibits communication between sides of the frame and the bees draw in out unevenly and at different places on the same frame at the same time. Foundationless lets the bees be more efficient, which is why they work it better.

Brian,

Once again..great info on the foundationless frames. What do you use to get them started? Do you use just the frame and thats it?

buzzbee · May 25, 2008, 09:44:33 AM

Scott,
here is a bare frame I put in my hive last year,no starter,no angled top bars,just a plain wedge top frame.

Ross · May 25, 2008, 03:31:20 PM

I've been foundationless completely for several years. I rip a bevel on the top bars before assembly. It's fast and works great. Nothing to fall out.

I use the center top bar now. Just rip one side and break out the wedge.

Dane Bramage · May 25, 2008, 11:40:37 PM

How do the foundationless frames hold up during extraction? (or are they even extracted?) I prefer extracted vs cut-comb (leave the wax for the bees) and would like to do foundationless but have concerns (collapse) with the radial extraction.

Regards,
Dane

buzzbee · May 26, 2008, 07:35:20 AM

We have a small hand powered extractor.I would be wary of doing a deep frame but medium frames work ok if they are drawn enough to be anchored on all sides.If the bottom isn't anchored it is very fragile!

Pond Creek Farm · May 26, 2008, 06:37:37 PM

Ken: Is an angled top bar, then, an unnecessary component of foundationless frames? If I could just pop in frames un-modified and have straight comb, that would be great. There is a man in our local association that builds boxes and frames for sale, so if I do need angles top bars, I could likely buy them from him custom made. I am now using foundation starter strips which I "welded" into place with bees wax and a tube I bought from Dadant. I learned that from Tillie's blog, and it seems to work great. I have not, however, had these frames through a full season.

Ross · May 26, 2008, 11:27:29 PM

You can put a regular empty frame between two drawn frames and they usually do ok. A center guide makes it more certain. You can use a popcicle stick or bevel the top bar like I do.

I extract frames anchored on 3 sides as long as they have hardened a bit. Don't try to extract a newly drawn very soft frame.