Bonehead Questions

[Jessaboo]

I am embarrassed to ask these questions but I have not been able to find answers that satisfy my obsessive mind...

Honey and Honeycomb - when you eat honey comb you are eating honey and wax, yes? Anyone know if it would be usual for folks have a bad reaction to eating honeybee wax (allergies?). How long does it take for capped honey to become honey? Is it honey once it is capped or does it still need to "season" - would fresh nectar in an uncapped cell still taste like honey?

Bearding - can someone clarify this a bit more? This is when the bees hang out on the outside of the hive? If yes, I have girls outside tonight (1030 PM) and it is the first time I have seen any bearding. I assume it is because here in NJ we managed to reach about 100 degrees today. Tomorrow will be more of the same. Any reason to be alarmed that they are hanging out so late (beside the potential skunk bait issue?)? I even see a few flying but mostly it seems to be a repositioning thing - they are not flying away from the hive necessarily. Is there something I should to help keep them cooler? This is a new colony - screened bottom board, just added 2nd deep Friday (which I thought would keep them cooler?), no entrance reducer in place. I can shim the telescoping outer cover which seems to be recommended. Anything else?

Finally, the hive has not built to spec - they seem to have their own plans and the contractor is not interested in hearing my opinion so I have a lot of "double" frames - started with 5 frames drawn out nicely and 3 of those are still fine but of the 5 foundation frames I gave them they have built them as double wides so that I can't get them apart without destroying it all. Any reason I shouldn't leave it alone? I can get to some of the brood frames, have seen that I have brood, have spotted the queen, etc. I am just hopeful maybe they will draw the 2nd deep out a little better. Starting with frames of all the same size might help with that?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Can't tell you how much I enjoy this forum - even tho I don't post that much I really love hearing what everyone else is doing - right and wrong!

Thanks. - Jess

[Brian D. Bray]

I am embarrassed to ask these questions but I have not been able to find answers that satisfy my obsessive mind...

Honey and Honeycomb - when you eat honey comb you are eating honey and wax, yes? Anyone know if it would be usual for folks have a bad reaction to eating honeybee wax (allergies?). How long does it take for capped honey to become honey? Is it honey once it is capped or does it still need to "season" - would fresh nectar in an uncapped cell still taste like honey?

An Allergy to honey is very rare, as for the wax it is made from honey so the same thing applies.

Bearding - can someone clarify this a bit more? This is when the bees hang out on the outside of the hive? If yes, I have girls outside tonight (1030 PM) and it is the first time I have seen any bearding. I assume it is because here in NJ we managed to reach about 100 degrees today. Tomorrow will be more of the same. Any reason to be alarmed that they are hanging out so late (beside the potential skunk bait issue?)? I even see a few flying but mostly it seems to be a repositioning thing - they are not flying away from the hive necessarily. Is there something I should to help keep them cooler? This is a new colony - screened bottom board, just added 2nd deep Friday (which I thought would keep them cooler?), no entrance reducer in place. I can shim the telescoping outer cover which seems to be recommended. Anything else?

Get a slatted rack, it will provide room for the extra bees to hang out in and not interfere with hive operations.  Bearding happens because it's too hot in the hive for the number of bees it contains and in order to lower the temperature the excess bees have to move outside to provide room.  A slatted rack helps also by providing a platform for the bees to use in their airconditioning efforts.  So it serves several purposes.

Finally, the hive has not built to spec - they seem to have their own plans and the contractor is not interested in hearing my opinion so I have a lot of "double" frames - started with 5 frames drawn out nicely and 3 of those are still fine but of the 5 foundation frames I gave them they have built them as double wides so that I can't get them apart without destroying it all. Any reason I shouldn't leave it alone? I can get to some of the brood frames, have seen that I have brood, have spotted the queen, etc. I am just hopeful maybe they will draw the 2nd deep out a little better. Starting with frames of all the same size might help with that?

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Can't tell you how much I enjoy this forum - even tho I don't post that much I really love hearing what everyone else is doing - right and wrong!

Thanks. - Jess

Sounds as if you're using plastic frames or foundationless.  If plastic, that is a common problem the bees will build burr comb instead of building on the foundation because there is not enough wax base.  With plastic it is best to coat with an additional layer of wax than what comes with it--The manufacturers could solve this problem quickly but don't seem inclined too.

If foundationless the bees will build off the outside edges of the frames, making a double comb, unless a starter strip of some kind is used as a guide.  Popsicle sticks glued into the wax channel of the top bar is a quick and easy fix to that problem.

[josbees]

What's a slatted rack?  Do you mean a slatted bottom board?  I'm in the northeast and seeing the same problem of a bunch of bees haghing out all over the outside of the hime

[JP]

What's a slatted rack?  Do you mean a slatted bottom board?  I'm in the northeast and seeing the same problem of a bunch of bees haghing out all over the outside of the hime

http://beekeeperlinda.blogspot.com/2006/06/beard-and-slatted-rack.html

Bees cap the honey cells when the moisture content is on average 18% or lower, this is why you can harvest capped honey with confidence if you don't own a refractometer http://www.chinabees.com/htm3/cpjs/hand%20held%20honey%20refractometer.htm


I don't know many people who enjoy swallowing the comb, its like swallowing spent gum, oohy.

Once it is capped or the moisture content is at or below 18% you can harvest and bottle it, it doesn't have to season.


...JP

[mark]

i've found that i didn't need a slatted rack with a screened bottom as long as i lifted the lid on one edge so it sits slanted.  this opens the top for more ventilation and lets rain run off quicker.

[Michael Bush]

>Honey and Honeycomb - when you eat honey comb you are eating honey and wax, yes?

Yes.

> Anyone know if it would be usual for folks have a bad reaction to eating honeybee wax (allergies?).

There is typically pollen embeded in the wax from traffic, so if they are allergic to pollen it's possible.

> How long does it take for capped honey to become honey?

That depends on the heat, the humidity and the workforce in the hive.  It can vary greatly.

> Is it honey once it is capped or does it still need to "season"

It's honey once it's capped.

> would fresh nectar in an uncapped cell still taste like honey?

Sort of. But not nearly as sweet.

>Bearding - can someone clarify this a bit more?

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#bearding

> Any reason to be alarmed that they are hanging out so late (beside the potential skunk bait issue?)?

If you've made sure there is adequate room, propped the lid up for adequate ventilation, no.  Nothing to be alarmed about.

> Is there something I should to help keep them cooler? This is a new colony - screened bottom board, just added 2nd deep Friday (which I thought would keep them cooler?), no entrance reducer in place.

Sounds like you've done everything but prop the lid.

> I can shim the telescoping outer cover which seems to be recommended.

Yes.

>Anything else?

That should do.  You can do the slatted rack if you like.  I don't have the money or the time to mess with them for a hundred hives, but they do help some.

>Finally, the hive has not built to spec

Meaning?

> they seem to have their own plans and the contractor is not interested in hearing my opinion so I have a lot of "double" frames - started with 5 frames drawn out nicely and 3 of those are still fine but of the 5 foundation frames I gave them they have built them as double wides so that I can't get them apart without destroying it all.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#messedupcomb

My guess is you spaced the combs evenly, or worse, put nine frames in spaced evenly.  They should have been pushed tightly together in the center.

> Any reason I shouldn't leave it alone?

Many.  You won't be able to find the queen or inspect the brood nest.  Get a sharp knife.  Brush off the double combs, cut them out and rubber band them into empty frames.

> I can get to some of the brood frames, have seen that I have brood, have spotted the queen, etc. I am just hopeful maybe they will draw the 2nd deep out a little better. Starting with frames of all the same size might help with that?

They aren't all the same size?

[Jessaboo]

Thanks for the responses -

I started with a 5 frame nuc. I now think that they are plastic foundation. I then added 5 wax foundation frames. It is the wax foundation that is being built poorly. So I am 10 frames in a 10 deep.

Sorry about not stating things entirely clearly - by different "size" I meant "depth" - the frames that are just foundation at this point are, obviously, very shallow compared to the built out nuc frames. It appears that they are using two of the fresh foundation frames to build a double wide. It is hard to see but here is a pic:



You will see that the top frame (in the pic) looks like it is not being built at all but the bottom frame is a "double wide" that is then kind of capped by the top frame.

Now, a few weeks ago, it all looked pretty nice -  nice and even



Now it looks like this:


The hole is where I had to pry it apart from the frame next to it where they had attached it straight through.
You can see that there is a tunnel under the drone cells on the right of the frame.

Here is one of the original brood frames which still looks great:


This one just looks like a work in progress to me:


Here is a very good example of the issue if you'll bear with me:


There should be 4 frames in this pic. Starting at the top of the pic, I removed the wall frame which has not been built out but they have just started on so the frame at the top of the pic is actually frame #2. You can't see it but the top side is not built at all yet. The side you can kind of see has been used as a "back wall" for the top of Frame #3 that appears "double wide"

Hubby is holding frame #4 out of the hive so I could get this pic, but it was the same issue - the bottom of #3 was acting as a wall for the double wide built on the top of #4 (I say top and bottom in ref to the pic). Bottom of #4 built out a bit and not as much of a problem because by the time we get to #5 we are in the brood area which is very nicely cleaned and built out.

So, maybe I am just not cleaning up properly?

What I am hoping is that since the second deep just got added and it is all wax foundation only frames maybe they will build a little more regularly. I have pushed them all together tightly into the center of the box as was recommended to me. I assume once they start building I can start to space them across the box a little better?

I appreciate all of your help/advice with this.

- Jess

[Brian D. Bray]

Proper spacing of frames in the hive is to have approximately 1/2 inch space between the outside frames (1 & 10) and the side of the box.  This space is to give the beekeeper manipulation room while working the hive.  I do my inspections by moving frames 1 & 2 to the side, breaking frame 3 away from frame 4 and then lifting it out of the hive.  Very easy to do and no rolling of the bees.  Placing the frame on a frame rest or leaning it against the side of the hive then allows you to move all the other frames during your inspection with little problem.  To close up just put the frames back in proper order, or make the changes you deem necessary, replace the removed frame and then space all the frames tightly together so you have 1/2 inch of free space on the outside edges of the hive.

[Ross]

They only do that on honey frames, not brood frames.  That is one reason we go to 9 or even 8 frames in the honey supers.  It suits the bees spacing better as well as giving us nice fat combs to uncap.  We see it a lot when putting undrawn frames in a super of drawn frames.  The bees will fatten the drawn frames and ignor the undrawn frame.  About all you can do is move it to the outside.  The bees will reduce it if it isn't capped.  For getting frames drawn, pack all frames tightly together in the center of the box leaving all excess space on the outsides.  This keeps them from going overboard with the fattening and also limits cross combing.

[Michael Bush]

If only you had used foundation... oh wait.  You did.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#messedupcomb