Necessary to wire brood foundation?

[derrick1p1]

I am going to convert to all mediums.  I no longer want to use plastic either.  I use crush and strain and will go foundationless for honey supers. 

Must I use wired wax foundation for the brood chambers, or can I give them a starter strip and go foundationless here too?  I've looked/read for info on medium brood chambers, but not seeing info on the foundations for them though.

Anyhow have experience converting like this?

Thanks,
Derrick

[sc-bee]

Most of the post you see on foudationless are referring to starting in the brood chamber(medium or deep your choice- a whole different discussion). The whole point of foudationless or small cell is to convert the brood chamber. I have not had as much success as others with foudationless but I feel it is my learning curve. Some folks just cross wire the empty frame (as I did it) making it easier to handle as the wax hardens. Others see it as a waste of time(wiring frames) as I may later? Careful when handling and tilting frames heavy w/ bees that may not be attached good  :-D!

[Ross]

In answer to your question, no, you don't need wired wax foundation in the brood chamber.  You can do foundationless or use starter strips.  If you use foundation, you might want to wire just to keep it from sagging until the bees get it drawn out.  I'm completely foundationless in my operation, including extracting foundationless.

[heaflaw]

Ross:

You said you extract with foundationless:  the times I put wireless frames in my extractor, they fell to peices.  What is your method? 

[Ross]

It's pretty simple.  To extract, you need medium frames that are attached on all 4 sides at least in a spot or two.  Typical frame will be solidly attached at the top, an inch or two on the sides, and maybe just a couple of spots on the bottom.  The second criteria is it can't be newly drawn comb.  It's just too soft.  Wax hardens with time.  I think a couple of cooling cycles helps harden too.  Once it has been drawn for a few weeks it's usually ok.  Also, radial extractors seem to be easier on comb.  I use a Dadant 20 frame powered extractor.  I start it slow for several minutes before gradually increasing the speed.  I got away with a number of frames this time that were only attached on 3 sides because they were older comb. 

[asciibaron]

you shouldn't need the wire and it will only be a hassle when you cut the combs out of the frames to crush. 

i am about to pull the trigger and get 2 medium supers, 20 frames and a pound of foundation to cut into starter strips.  i am planning on doing cut comb and crush and strain.  this seems like the best way to go since i don't have an extractor and my yield won't justify the $10.00 rental fee from the local club. 

i'm thinking i'll get less than 10 pounds this year.

next year is next year.

-Steve

[annette]

I am doing all foundationless now and they are drawing the comb just fine. I have the foundationless frames in all the supers now. They can just draw whatever they need. I use wax starter strips.

[qa33010]

   I go all wireless and starter strips in brood and supers.  Like Ross said they need to be attached on all four sides for honey extraction.  With the Sweinty I don't have to worry about all sides attached, it was originally designed for TBH extraction for those that wanted to save drawn frames.  So far when I've removed old wax from frames that were wired, it has been a hassle, sometimes painful, if I'm not wearing leather gloves. :roll: