Questions about weak captured swarm

[Bill W.]

As recounted here, I caught a swarm a couple days ago.  I suspect it may, in fact, have been an afterswarm with a virgin queen.

The swarm was about half the size of a two-pound package, which statistically matches best to a second or third afterswarm, according to Winston's Biology of the Honeybee.

After poking around yesterday, I am 99% certain I saw a queen, but these bees are very small and fast runners and I didn't want to disturb them too much by chasing the queen around.

They are sucking down syrup, but they are not building any comb and they are not flying.  In fact, rather than fly, I've observed a number of them crawl to the edge of the bottom board and then drop to the ground and crawl around.  All my other bees are flying, so it's not the weather.

I have a number of thoughts:

* I could be wrong about having the queen and perhaps they are disorganized and listless because of that.

* It was a cold and drizzly day when they swarmed and maybe the chill took some life out of them.

* It could be that this swarm is too small for a full deep and should be in a nuc instead.  Unfortunately I don't have a spare nuc, but I could put some styrofoam blocks in the deep to cut down the volume.

* It could be that bees work on their own schedule and I'm just expecting too much action in too short a time.

* It could be that the bees with this swarm are all too young to be foragers and that is the reason they are not flying.  (But I would still expect them to build comb.)

So, my options are watch and wait or combine them with another hive.  I have a hive that is not exactly flourishing and could use some reinforcement, but I would kind of like to keep the genetics of this swarm if possible, as they definitely appear to be feral survivors.

So, the big question is how long should I wait to see something from this hive before I punt and combine them?  I don't want to wait too long and lose them.

[Bill W.]

Just got home, took a peek and got lucky.  The queen was right there.  Jet black and shiny.  So, I can rule out queenlessness.

But I'm still stumped about what they are waiting for.

[Moonshae]

Are they on foundation or drawn comb? It often takes the queen some time go bulk back up into laying before they gear up...she has to slim down to be able to fly with the swarm. The size of the hive could be an issue, but if you're really worried, give them a frame or two of capped brood from one of your booming hives. That one won't miss it, but the swarm will appreciate the population boost, and it won't interfere with genetics. It'll also give the queen more drawn comb when the new bees emerge.

[KONASDAD]

relax. I usually dont see eggs for at least 7-10 days, particularly w/ small swarms. Not enough bees to cover brood, not ebough area to lay eggs. Giv'em a chance, feed'm and maintain approprite size box. Nucs for small swarms, then mediums and deeps afterwards for large swarms. I would rather have too small a hive box then too big intitially. I recently caught a swarm that was maybe one pound of bees. They have a queen, but no bees to cover brood, so brood pattern is about 1/5 of one frame. Its cool to watch them festoon w/ about 80% of population and they cover not even two frames.

[Yarra_Valley]

Well done with the swarm removal.

So, my options are watch and wait or combine them with another hive.  I have a hive that is not exactly flourishing and could use some reinforcement, but I would kind of like to keep the genetics of this swarm if possible, as they definitely appear to be feral survivors.

So, the big question is how long should I wait to see something from this hive before I punt and combine them?  I don't want to wait too long and lose them.

Make sure you don't introduce any nasties to your other hive if you intend on uniting them.

[Bill W.]

Dang!  My intuition kept telling me something was wrong.  I wish I knew what it was.  I gave the bees some time without bothering them before checking again this evening.  Half are dead - piled up on the bottom board.  Still taking syrup but still not a bit of comb drawn.  Makes me wonder if the syrup was getting robbed and I just didn't see it happen.

The queen was still alive, so I slapped together a three frame nuc out of scrap plywood and put them in that with a boardman feeder on the front and an entrance just big enough for a couple bees.  Maybe they'll still be able to pull it together.

It's puzzling.  The weather has been good.  No signs of disease.  I hate to lose them after having such a good time capturing them.

[sc-bee]

Could have been sprayed w/ a pesticide and absconded. Just a thought!

[tillie]

If you got a virgin queen, she has to fly and be mated, return and then start laying.  The swarm I got with a virgin queen didn't start drawing comb for about a week which is how long I calculate until she flew off to be mated and returned.....Bees that come with a swarm have the same life span as other bees, although half sounds like a lot are dead.  Usually bees dead from robbery are outside the hive.  Maybe the dead bees on the bottom board are from pesticide, but maybe they died in the natural course of things and the queen is taking a little long to finish her mating ritual.

Just a thought,

Linda T in Atlanta

[Bill W.]

I'm finally seeing some positive signs!  They have drawn half a frame of comb.  No eggs, but I did suspect a virgin queen.  No more casualties.  I must be under a pound of surviving bees - they all fit on a single frame.  But, it looks like maybe they'll pull through after all.

[rast]

 Just a suggestion on a quick and fast temporary nuc for a small swarm. I cut some cardboard that fit the inside of a standard box and stapled it to a couple of empty frames and dropped them down on each side of 4 frames. they fit very snug and the cover pushed down on the top of the cardboard. Later, when not in a hurry, I used plywood.