July Splits

Pond Creek Farm · June 23, 2008, 11:39:45 PM

I have been reading the articles on splitting the hives in mid july into nucs (2 brood, 3 honey and pollen). This is touted as a way to stay ahead of the mites. I have also read with great interest the literature by Mr. Bush regarding the regression of bees and the IPM practices he employs. These seem to be at odds. Why must we split every hive every year? It does not seem that many on this forum, including Mr. Bush, employ this method on every hive. My instinct tells me not to pinch a queen without a good reason, but perhaps there is a good reason, and I simply do not see it. What do you all think of this issue? July is fast-approaching.

Brian D. Bray · June 24, 2008, 12:50:21 AM

Quote from: Pond Creek Farm on June 23, 2008, 11:39:45 PM
I have been reading the articles on splitting the hives in mid july into nucs (2 brood, 3 honey and pollen). This is touted as a way to stay ahead of the mites. I have also read with great interest the literature by Mr. Bush regarding the regression of bees and the IPM practices he employs. These seem to be at odds. Why must we split every hive every year? It does not seem that many on this forum, including Mr. Bush, employ this method on every hive. My instinct tells me not to pinch a queen without a good reason, but perhaps there is a good reason, and I simply do not see it. What do you all think of this issue? July is fast-approaching.

They are not at odds to different parts of the same thing. Splitting a hive is to create an artifical swarm so you don't lose bees when they are needed most (honey flow).
IPM includes keeping an open brood chamber (placing empty frames in it), preventing crowding, timely supering (backfilling into the brood chamber crowds the queen as well as the workers), and splits to control or avoid swarms.
Regression is putting bees onto smaller sized comb by using smaller sized imprinted foundation (small cell), small cell plastic comb frames, or letting them build the comb naturally (no foundation). This is one approach to mite control.
Swarming, or splitting, is one way to break the brood cycle, which in turn interrupts the mite growth within the hive. By interrupting the brood production cycle the bees natural hygenic behavior allows them to get ahead of the mites temporarily.
With small cell, mite reproduction is restricted due to cell size as smaller cells give the mite less time and space in which to reproduce.

You can use all or none of the above. I choose to use them all.

Moonshae · June 24, 2008, 09:07:08 AM

There are many different methods, each giving various degrees of success. To be able to split every hive into 4 nucs, you need enough equipment to actually do so.

Also, the article suggests that if you're using some hives for honey production, don't split them, collect the honey and just let them fade. Splitting the others gives you the hives you'll need next year...some to split, some to produce honey.

deantn · June 24, 2008, 09:27:28 AM

I believe the article he read about July splits was from someone doing them for profit of the sale of nucs. This man or company isn't interested in honey production just making and selling nucs and equipment to other beekeepers. He is right about staying ahead of the mites by doing a split and requeening them in late summer. Disrupting the brood cycle causes the mite to lose also. So less mites at that time means better control of them for winter.

Ross · June 24, 2008, 10:20:05 AM

In much of the south and southwest, the honey flow is done by July. Might as well split them and make nucs at that point.

DennisB · June 24, 2008, 10:26:27 AM

Is it possible to split and then in a month reunite? This way the splitting will interupt the brood cycle to get rid of some mites but still allow the beekeeper to stay with the same amount of hives if desired. Just a thought.

Dennis

KONASDAD · June 24, 2008, 11:05:15 AM

Quote from: DennisB on June 24, 2008, 10:26:27 AM
Is it possible to split and then in a month reunite? This way the splitting will interupt the brood cycle to get rid of some mites but still allow the beekeeper to stay with the same amount of hives if desired. Just a thought.

Dennis

If you want. Would be expensive if you buy queens. Making nucs and splits is similar to farmers replacing perrenial fruits annually or bi-annually. Young plants and hives are more productive because they are more "youthful". It also helps w/ mite control which is very needed bonus in some locales. It is this type of manipulation that seperate beehavers from beekeeepers.

Frantz · June 24, 2008, 01:52:55 PM

Aren't all hives fairly youthful as the life cycle is so short? Was there another meaning to your use of the term youthful?
Just wondering,
From a self proclaimer still learning bee haver!!!

KONASDAD · June 24, 2008, 02:50:59 PM

Quote from: Frantz on June 24, 2008, 01:52:55 PM
Aren't all hives fairly youthful as the life cycle is so short? Was there another meaning to your use of the term youthful?
Just wondering,
From a self proclaimer still learning bee haver!!!

queens get older and their behaviours change which changes your bees attitudes as well. Usually more defensive and less honey production for some reason has been my observation. I too am still a beehaver!

Frantz · June 24, 2008, 03:12:12 PM

Ok,, So you mean to requeen is a good idea, as it keep the other girls on their toes. That kinda thing.. I could see that being the case.
F

jsmob · June 27, 2008, 01:46:40 AM

I have talked to some old beek and they say they re queen every year because the older queens don't produce as many young the 2nd year and following years. I don't know if I believe this. My two year old queen is out producing this years kids in honey and brood. I also pulled her out of the hive every other day this spring, for three KS straight, to take her to schools presentations.
I know this sounds funny but I love this queen. I think when it is time for her to go I will put her in a picture frame and put her name as "Wonder Women"

qa33010 · June 27, 2008, 02:49:12 AM

I guess I missed this in the books. When you do a split do you take the queen with and leave the capped queen cells? Or leave the queen and take the swarm cells? Do I need to worry about possible after swarms either way?

Like I said I guess I missed this...

What has been your best success?

Brian D. Bray · June 27, 2008, 09:11:57 PM

Quote from: jsmob on June 27, 2008, 01:46:40 AM
I have talked to some old beek and they say they re queen every year because the older queens don't produce as many young the 2nd year and following years. I don't know if I believe this. My two year old queen is out producing this years kids in honey and brood. I also pulled her out of the hive every other day this spring, for three KS straight, to take her to schools presentations.
I know this sounds funny but I love this queen. I think when it is time for her to go I will put her in a picture frame and put her name as "Wonder Women"

A queen is in her prime the 2nd year and still adequate the 3rd year. I've had queens that lived 5 years and still doing well enough not to replace them. The fear of AHB has changed that in some places (ie Florida) but requeening yearly is not necessary. I try to get 3 years out of mine and more if they're still producing well. To me the only reason to buy queens is to do fast splits, replace a bad line, or give an occassional genetic diversity, which means buying queens from variious sources.