Second Brood Box is making Cross Combs

annette · June 26, 2008, 06:49:18 PM

My new package of bees installed May 17 did a great job of drawing out the foundationless starter strip frames in the first bottom brood super.

Next super up is starting to become a mess. They are drawing out the combs straight, but very full and they are becoming connected to the frames next to them. Since they are full of honey/sugar stores, when I tried to move the frames, it made a very big mess of honey dripping down the frames. I even ended up accidently pulling a whole comb of honey off the frame and it dropped down onto the box below. I had to retrieve it and placed it on top of an inner cover for them to clean up.

How do I stop them from doing this?? All my frames are next to each other tightly, so what happened to the bee space?????

Annette

Jerrymac · June 26, 2008, 07:34:31 PM

Was everything full? Perhaps they ran out of room and needed more storage so they put it where ever there was a place. Perhaps another box :?

Moonshae · June 26, 2008, 08:07:11 PM

Did you move a drawn frame or two up from below for them to use as an initial guide? Sometimes they get weird when they have a whole top box of starter strips.

annette · June 26, 2008, 08:20:11 PM

I did not place a guide in the second box. I bet that was the problem. I will have to go back in and place some drawn out comb in the super. Should I place it between the frames that are almost touching??? That would really squeeze the frames to tight.

Do I have to cut out the combs and have the bees redo them??? How do I fix this now? There are probably 4 frames like this.
The rest of the frames are empty.

Moonshae · June 26, 2008, 08:58:10 PM

I would use a knife and just cut away the excess width, and stagger them among the undrawn frames. You said it's all nectar storage, so it's not like you'll be killing brood. Do the cutting over a pan and leave it out, and the bees will recollect it!

annette · June 26, 2008, 10:15:59 PM

Quote from: Moonshae on June 26, 2008, 08:58:10 PM
I would use a knife and just cut away the excess width, and stagger them among the undrawn frames. You said it's all nectar storage, so it's not like you'll be killing brood. Do the cutting over a pan and leave it out, and the bees will recollect it!

Yes that sounds like a plan. I will bring a sharp knife up with me this time and not try to use the hive tool, which made a mess.
Thanks
Annette

Moonshae · June 26, 2008, 10:19:09 PM

An uncapping knife would work great, if you have one.

annette · June 26, 2008, 10:21:16 PM

All I have is one you have to heat up!! I am still a little worried that the comb will all fall down, as it is very hot up there and the bees are all over it and it is new comb and not attached except on the top. OH boy, but I have to do something!! LIke today when a large chunk fell down. I felt so bad.

jsmob · June 27, 2008, 12:22:47 AM

Annette Hey!
I had the same problem also. What I did was look down through the frames and took my hive tool and cut the comb to break it apart so I could pull the frame. Then once I had the frame out I was able to twist the comb back in line with the frame. Then I pressed ( or pinched) the comb against the Popsicle sticks. I also worked it a little to get the bends out. If you have some comb fall off reattach it to a top bar or take it home and enjoy. :evil:
I didn't have much trouble of the comb falling apart if I cut through it before pulling the frames.

annette · June 27, 2008, 12:49:08 AM

Thanks for the advice. I will try this. Wish me luck

Annette

By the way, are you getting any honey down in Sacto???? My bees have just started to fill out the supers with uncapped nectar. It has been a bad year up here for honey.

jsmob · June 27, 2008, 01:19:11 AM

Annette
I just pulled a deep off of a hive I started last year. But it has a medium on it that is close to being capped. I just split it again and that one has a full deep of brood capped brood and some honey store. I will bee feeding it.
The split I did from it this spring has a deep and a medium that need to be capped and some back fillling to be done. So these two in town are doing great. But I have two in Granite Bay that are struggling because it is so dry. They are this years packages I started. I am having to feed them but they should be fine by winter.

Ross · June 27, 2008, 10:30:22 AM

You call it cross comb, but then you say it is straight but fat. Cross comb is drawn across more than one frame, as in the comb is not in line with the top bar. Inter-connect comb is just burr and can be removed with a hive tool. Fat combs are common. I usually go to 9 frames when they do that as they prefer that spacing when storing honey. If it is indeed cross comb, just detach it from the adjacent frame and bend it back inline. Use a rubber band around the frame is need be.

annette · June 27, 2008, 02:27:15 PM

Ok what I am seeing is the comb coming down straight from the middle, but being drawn out on one side only and fat enough to attach to the next frame to it. Is it cross comb??? I had the thought to space them for 9 frames, but I do not know how to do this without a guide. Also this is the second brood box and I wanted to get it straight. Right now they are drawing out honey, but it might be brood next.

Thanks for the help
Annette

Ross · June 27, 2008, 07:00:56 PM

Those are just fat honey combs. It usually happens when you have a drawn but not capped comb next to an undrawn frame. They must not need the brood area right now and are storing honey. You can move it to the outside wall and crowd it a bit into the wall. They will rework it. Or you can trim it. They will clean up the honey and the comb. If you want nice brood comb, place one frame at a time between two drawn brood frames. This is nearly foolproof. Remember, bees draw what they think they need, not what you think they need.

annette · June 27, 2008, 11:52:05 PM

Ok this sounds good. I will move those frames to the outside like you say. I then plan on introducing at least 2 frames of empty comb into the super as a guide. Probably right in the middle and I guess perhaps somewhere in between 2 other starter strip frames. Yes I have the experience of placing a frame of just starter strips in between 2 brood frames and they do a wonderful job of making those frames straight.

Thanks a lot
Annette

tillie · June 29, 2008, 12:07:28 AM

If in trying to guide the bees properly to draw the comb straight, you have to cut some comb, you can hold the cut comb in the frame with large rubber bands (Office Depot) that go around the frame in either direction.

Linda T in No Georgia mtns.

annette · June 29, 2008, 12:21:07 AM

Boy oh boy did I make a mess today. I tried to push the comb back in a little with the hive tool. One entire huge comb filled with honey came crashing down into the hive. I had to remove many frames and scoop up the dripping honeycomb with my hands and just placed it on top of an inner cover for them to clean up. I added 2 frames of drawn wax combs for them to use as a guide. Hopefully they will get back on track in drawing out the combs nicer. They can also fill up these wax combs with the honey in the combs I placed on an inner cover in the hive.
I did try to place the fallen honey comb back into the frame with a rubber band, but it was a huge mess and just falling apart the more I tried to maneuver it around.

I think I better stay away from them for a while.

Thank you all for the suggestions.

Annette