pile of dead bees, but no other problems?

[BeeMaster2]

First of all, I would go back to the person who sold you the bees.
If that is not an option, then:
Your feeder is too close to your hive for Itialian's. Bees will find your hive while looking for the feeder. If you are open feeding. You are feeding everyone else's bees.
Do not use an entrance feeder. They really creat robbing.
If you pour 1:1 in your hive, which I would not do, bee sure to put grass in it to keep from drowning your bees.
Leave the fondant in. Your best bet.
The comb is probably not your problem. It encapsulates most problems.
Jim

[biggraham610]

Jim has alot more experience than I do but I am still suspecting chilled brood, with the increase coming from a stage of brood that was unaffected. Jim, you think with 5-600 bees in the nuc he shouldnt add bees? I dont understand. Help me out. Thanks G :chop:

[BeeMaster2]

Jim has alot more experience than I do but I am still suspecting chilled brood, with the increase coming from a stage of brood that was unaffected. Jim, you think with 5-600 bees in the nuc he shouldnt add bees? I dont understand. Help me out. Thanks G :chop:

BigG,
That is due to experiences I have had the last 2 years. I have watched 2 different queens go through the winter with a fist size ball of bees in my observation hive and by the end of December they looked like they were half that size. They both recovered to swarm strength in the spring.
I have been having. Trouble with queens not surviving their maiden flights and have combine them with queen right hives. Several of them then failed usually due to robbing or absconding.
Jim

[biggraham610]

Thanks Jim, that makes sense. G :chop:

[jalentour]

Saw,
The hive I pulled the brood from is doing very well.  Something must have happened from the farm to the house one hour away, or cool weather we had once I got to the house.  They were transported in a wire nuc box I started the healthy hive from in May.  Truck windows were open 80 degree day, doubt they were over heated.
Do the descriptions of the dead and dieing bees give you a clue?  Straw color no or little black, some missing wings, spasms, can't walk. 
Could it just be the cold on the outer frames and the inner frames are hatching normally?  Then the healthy bees toss out the weak?  I do have a lot of healthy bees now.
Other factors to consider:  Too few nurse bees (50-60), in wire nuc 3 days before I could build a good wood nuc, carried inside the house and outside the house because of cool 47-50 degree nights.
I'd like not to repeat this error on my next split.

At what point do I pull the plug, capture the queen and start over?  I have two healthy hives to draw from? 

[BeeMaster2]

Saw,
The hive I pulled the brood from is doing very well.  Something must have happened from the farm to the house one hour away, or cool weather we had once I got to the house.  They were transported in a wire nuc box I started the healthy hive from in May.  Truck windows were open 80 degree day, doubt they were over heated.
Do the descriptions of the dead and dieing bees give you a clue?  Straw color no or little black, some missing wings, spasms, can't walk. 
Could it just be the cold on the outer frames and the inner frames are hatching normally?  Then the healthy bees toss out the weak?  I do have a lot of healthy bees now.
Other factors to consider:  Too few nurse bees (50-60), in wire nuc 3 days before I could build a good wood nuc, carried inside the house and outside the house because of cool 47-50 degree nights.
I'd like not to repeat this error on my next split.

At what point do I pull the plug, capture the queen and start over?  I have two healthy hives to draw from? 

It really sounds like the dead bees were hurt by the transit or chilled especially if you had a wire nuc. Is your queen laying as much as the bees can cover. An experienced q will not lay more than they can cover. If it seems to be growing I would let them bee.every 3 weeks they should bee doubling in size.  Keep in mind, every time you inspect them you set them back. They have to fix all of the damage from smoke and damaged comb.
Jim

[jalentour]

Jim,
I think you are right. 
What are your thoughts about adding another brood frame? 
Joe

[BeeMaster2]

Jim,
I think you are right. 
What are your thoughts about adding another brood frame? 
Joe

That will probably help a lot but you need the bees to go with it but if you do not have a good flow on you need an extra step.
Take a frame of brood and place it in a empty super cover it partially just to protect it from the sun. Leave it sit for about 15 minutes. This will allow the field bees to go back to their hive and leave the nurse bees on the frame. Then add it to your nuc. You do not want the field bees finding a new source of food in a dearth.
Jim

[Santa Caras]

Take a frame of brood and place it in a empty super cover it partially just to protect it from the sun. Leave it sit for about 15 minutes. This will allow the field bees to go back to their hive and leave the nurse bees on the frame. Then add it to your nuc. You do not want the field bees finding a new source of food in a dearth.
Jim[/quote]

This is what I love about these sites. learn something new everyday. While splitting, I had just been taking the frames of brood(from 3 diffrent hives) and slapping them straight into a nuc. I had noticed the fighting going on but I thoght that was just from stirring up 3 hives. Ummmm, me thinks my spring splits will go a little easier now. Thanks Jim!

[BeeMaster2]

No problem Santa. Just passing on what I have learned the hard way.   :?
Jim

[biggraham610]

You have that problem in the spring when making splits during a heavy flow Jim? Or just when things are a little light on the flow side? I hadnt noticed but seems like a great Idea. Thanks. G :chop:

[BeeMaster2]

You have that problem in the spring when making splits during a heavy flow Jim? Or just when things are a little light on the flow side? I hadnt noticed but seems like a great Idea. Thanks. G :chop:

No, not during a flow.
During a heavy flow, the bees prefer nectar to honey. During a dearth or light flow, every hive is a food source.
I have cut a hive out of a tool box in the middle of my apiary, during the middle of a flow, honey all over the place with absolutely no robbing.
On the other end of the spectrum, I have had to stop pulling capped honey due to severe robbing even with lots of smoke and Beedun to mask the smell of honey.
Jim

[jalentour]

Jim,
The reason  I brought this nuc to my house in SE Ohio is that there are a lot of irrigated homeowner flowers in the area.   There is drought in SE Indiana and SW Ohio. 

You say to add a brood frame from my healthy hive, agreed.  Can do.

The Nuc I have built, will it accept nurse bees?  I'd rather bring the brood frame only.  There are about 500-900 bees on the frames now.  They are 7- 21 days old.

My nuc is alive, barely.  Raided frequently, put a towel over the entrance to stop robbing. 

I have bees cleaning, bees bringing in pollen.  Queen alive.  Feeding fondant from top.

This Sunday i will visit my Indiana hives. Can pull what ever I need.

Your thoughts?

I think this nuc can make it, I have learned a lot from you and the thread.

Thank you all. 

[BeeMaster2]

Jim,
The reason  I brought this nuc to my house in SE Ohio is that there are a lot of irrigated homeowner flowers in the area.   There is drought in SE Indiana and SW Ohio.  

You say to add a brood frame from my healthy hive, agreed.  Can do.

The Nuc I have built, will it accept nurse bees?  I'd rather bring the brood frame only.  There are about 500-900 bees on the frames now.  They are 7- 21 days old.

My nuc is alive, barely.  Raided frequently, put a towel over the entrance to stop robbing.  

I have bees cleaning, bees bringing in pollen.  Queen alive.  Feeding fondant from top.

This Sunday i will visit my Indiana hives. Can pull what ever I need.

Your thoughts?

I think this nuc can make it, I have learned a lot from you and the thread.

Thank you all.  

JV,
Nurse bees can bee moved to a new hive with no problem, it is the field bees that will return to their original hive but not if their hive is over 2 miles away. Since you are moving them long distance, just take a brood frame and bees, put it in a box full of frames, to keep the frames from moving inside of the box, take it home to your nuc. It will bee their new home because they will not bee able to go home. If you have a dearth on in the apiary, you will have to bee quick or robbing will start and your bees will bee aggressive even to you. If they are just brood boxes, pull one or 2 frames if they are strong, close the lid, check the frames to make sure you do not have your queen, put them in a nuc, lock the frames in place with a wedge, to keep the bees from being crushed between frames bouncing together on the road and put them in your nuc.
Make sure they are locked in but have good ventilation like a screen bottom board or a screen top board.
Jim

[biggraham610]

Jim,
The reason  I brought this nuc to my house in SE Ohio is that there are a lot of irrigated homeowner flowers in the area.   There is drought in SE Indiana and SW Ohio. 

You say to add a brood frame from my healthy hive, agreed.  Can do.

The Nuc I have built, will it accept nurse bees?  I'd rather bring the brood frame only.  There are about 500-900 bees on the frames now.  They are 7- 21 days old.

My nuc is alive, barely.  Raided frequently, put a towel over the entrance to stop robbing. 

I have bees cleaning, bees bringing in pollen.  Queen alive.  Feeding fondant from top.

This Sunday i will visit my Indiana hives. Can pull what ever I need.

Your thoughts?

I think this nuc can make it, I have learned a lot from you and the thread.

Thank you all. 

The reason I had earlier suggested adding frames with nurses was to boost the hive numbers, therefore freeing up the queen to lay more because she would have the attendants needed to care for the brood. This in theory will grow the hive much more quickly. Good Luck. G

[jalentour]

An update on my dead bees in new nuc.

Since my last post I have added a brood frame, with attendants, and fondant.  To prevent robbing I added a wet towel to the front of the hive.

I opened the nuc today and found a lot of dead bees and maggots on the bottom and in one frame.  I pulled the frames and washed out the nuc with a garden hose.  I started to pick out the maggots in the cells and returned the five frames to the box.  The robber bees were so bad I had to leave and get some protection.  I am not sure if the maggots were fly or bee larva, but, since they were not inside a covered cell, I suspect they are fly.

I also saw a black beetle about the size of a lady bug. 

Should I just shake the bees off the frame with the maggots and remove the frame?

Any good ideas to keep pests and robbers out of the nuc?

The queen is alive, I am not sure she is laying.

[biggraham610]

sounds like small hive beetle larvae. I dont know an answer other than high bee numbers. Jim deals with them alot, hope he will chime in. Good Luck. G :chop:

[BeeMaster2]

An update on my dead bees in new nuc.

Since my last post I have added a brood frame, with attendants, and fondant.  To prevent robbing I added a wet towel to the front of the hive.

I opened the nuc today and found a lot of dead bees and maggots on the bottom and in one frame.  I pulled the frames and washed out the nuc with a garden hose.  I started to pick out the maggots in the cells and returned the five frames to the box.  The robber bees were so bad I had to leave and get some protection.  I am not sure if the maggots were fly or bee larva, but, since they were not inside a covered cell, I suspect they are fly.

I also saw a black beetle about the size of a lady bug.  

Should I just shake the bees off the frame with the maggots and remove the frame?

Any good ideas to keep pests and robbers out of the nuc?

The queen is alive, I am not sure she is laying.

They are definitely not fly larvae. They are probably SHB larvae and maybe some lesser moth larvae.
When you find them in the bottom of the hive it means the bees removed them from the comb. That is good. This usually happens after a major disturbance which causes the bees to stop containing the SHBs while they are fixing the hive or if they have swarmed. Usually happens on the third day after the disturbance.
It is important that the bees do not have more drawn comb than they can protect.
To keep the robbers out of this hive, take a long piece of 3/4" x 3/4" wood and make a frame the size of the front of the hive with an opening at the top. Place #8 wire over it and place it over the front of your hive. The occupants figure out how to get out but the robbers go where they can smell the entrance.
Jim

[jalentour]

Thanks.
I put in an oil trap last night, will install screen and pull out a frame today.

[BeeMaster2]

Thanks.
I put in an oil trap last night, will install screen and pull out a frame today.

That will help a lot.
Jim