Wax Moth Epidemic on the Way?

MrILoveTheAnts · November 08, 2008, 03:11:51 PM

Maybe it's a little late to post about this but I was thinking about CCD earlier. For the past two years or so we've had hives dying off and bee farmers have been forced to do loads of splits on their surviving hives. Well that's a lot of empty hives out there and lots of weak hives. Am I the only one foreseeing a massive out break of Wax Moths?

rast · November 08, 2008, 05:09:49 PM

"Am I the only one foreseeing a massive out break of Wax Moths?"
Shucks, I thought it was already here, at least where I live. There is about 10 moth filled supers with frames and whats left of comb about 1/4 mile from me. I was amazed at the number of moths I caught in one of those Pepsi bottle traps in a weeks time. Not all wax moths, but a significant number.
I have treated all my stored ones with BT and they (moths) still get in them, just don't have the destructive larva, (yet) they must die before they are large enough to be seen.

BjornBee · November 09, 2008, 07:37:18 AM

Those commercial operations that have lost many hives to CCD, are (with exception) the same guys that use chemicals. And they have been using other chems and practices for years to protect their comb. So if supers are sitting around in piles being wasted by wax moths, then it's from operations going out of business.

As for a wax moth epidemic...I say no. Wax moths are everywhere anyways. If every beekeeper took out a super and all together set them out during wax moth season, every beekeeper would have wax moths due to the local population.

rast · November 09, 2008, 02:43:05 PM

Quote from: BjornBee on November 09, 2008, 07:37:18 AM
Those commercial operations that have lost many hives to CCD, are (with exception) the same guys that use chemicals. And they have been using other chems and practices for years to protect their comb. So if supers are sitting around in piles being wasted by wax moths, then it's from operations going out of business.

Not a confrontational question, just maybe an educational one. How would you propose to protect stored comb in the south with the very few freezes we have without chemicals. I have moths/beetles year round here normally.
Yes the beekeeper that left the hives here was commercial. He decided it was more profitable for him to grow corn in Wis. than beekeep.
Maybe someday I'll learn how to use the quote properly. :?

BjornBee · November 09, 2008, 03:43:53 PM

rast,
besides the use of chemicals to which I think most large operators do use, there are some other strategies perhaps for smaller numbers of boxes.

1) BT. Although I have it and used it, I'm not convinced it will handle all the wax moth problems. Others will say yes. I think its worth trying.

2) Do not allow ANY brood to be raised in your supers. Many people suggest not using queen excluders. I would rather see people use them correctly, thus allowing them to keep clean comb for honey production. Clean honey comb with no brood ever being raised, attracts almost no wax moths. And although I have had wax moths eat pure foundation, they seem to not go after clean comb and little damage will be seen.

3)I know of one operation that freezes and seals all supers by the pallet. Another one keeps them in refrigerated truck trailers. This can be done on a smaller scale.

4) I know some that manage their honey supers in numbers that allow the supers to stay on the hive year round. They extract several times and do not deal with more than 2 or 3 supers per hive. I'm not sure about the management of under storing or over storing, or using queen excluders, etc. I remember a guy who stored them above the inner cover. But I'm not sure the timing, etc. maybe someone can chime in on this one.

I know I have placed boxes of clean comb after extracting outdoors under an overhand of the barn, and they sit from year to year with little or no damage. Wax moths do not like sunlight. The worst thing you can do is stack them up, without staggering them. Some just stand the boxes on end with a few inched between them so light penetrates.

That's all I can think of at this time.

annette · November 09, 2008, 04:23:57 PM

Can i Just mention that I was under the impression that the bees totally cleaned up after themselves. Meaning the brood that was born, turned around and cleaned up its cell. That is why they can use the same combs for brood rearing or for storing food.

Many people here do not use QE's and this is the reason. Because the bees are very, very clean. I am just curious why you think it is not so clean. First time I have heard this.

I do not plan on ever having more than 1-2 honey supers on the hive. I plan on extracting as they fill them up because otherwise it would be too many supers for me to have to deal with. Also do not want to purchase so many supers.

Thanks for listening
annette

BjornBee · November 09, 2008, 04:32:50 PM

annette,

Bees do clean the cell, but can not clean out the cocoon film (not sure the proper name) from within the cell.

After the first brood cycle, you can see the darkening of the cells. Each continues cycle of brood leaves behind another layer. Within a few cycles of brood, the comb is blackened. It's this organic matter that the wax moths are feeding on.

Over a period of time, the cells regress smaller and smaller. Until finally they will tear down and rebuild the comb. How long it takes for this, I do not know.

Keep this cocoon buildup out of you honey super cells, and wax moths will not seek out your honey supers.

Cindi · November 10, 2008, 10:51:55 AM

Bjornbee. I find this information that you have brought here about the wax moth and what it likes to live in very interesting. Makes good sense actually. Interesting thoughts too on the use of or use not of the queen excluders. Small patches of brood in the honey supers are a nuisance, agree there. Have a wonderful and awesome day and life, great health. Cindi

bassman1977 · November 10, 2008, 04:30:26 PM

Well I learned something new today. :)

QuoteNot a confrontational question, just maybe an educational one. How would you propose to protect stored comb in the south with the very few freezes we have without chemicals. I have moths/beetles year round here normally.

I don't know how many hives you have, but I have about 20 or more mediums that I take off the hives in the fall. What I do is wrap them up in a garbage bag, tie them shut and duct tape any holes. Then set each super on top of each other. I haven't been hit with any wax moth problems since I started doing this. About 2 years ago, I used...crap...what is the stuff...paramoth or something. I used it successfully without wrapping. I like my current method better though...the no chemical thing.

I keep the supers in the corner of my basement. It's between 60 and 70 degrees F depending on how high I have the temperature in the winter down there.

rast · November 10, 2008, 08:10:37 PM

Bjornbee, thanks for the input. Yep, most of the moth damage starts in the brood comb and works its way up. I have brood comb stored as well as honey comb. All this I have sprayed with BT. I froze most of my stored comb for two days before thawing and spraying. Any more freezing is out of the question, just ask my wife. My large chest freezer has 30 frames of honey for this next brood raising season in it. I bought her an upright and put beside the chest. Gosh, I wish she would get her priorities straight.
I can't store just setting outside, I tried that and with 3 supers and had more bull ants in them than you can imagine. Amazed me, they had put an egg in each cell on three frames. I had a devil of a time beating eggs and ants out of frames without getting bit.
Bassman, if I had a basement, it would have three feet of water in it most of the time. :)
I did a rough count of about 12 mixed mediums and deeps, not counting some drawn frames stacked on top of some. I haven't tried garbage bags with the whole super, just the frames in the freezer. I don't want to use the moth crystals either, even though thats what I was told to use by a former commercial.

KONASDAD · November 13, 2008, 05:42:24 PM

I think that moths also have a purpose in life. By eating old comb, it becomes "clean" again. My observations regarding feral hives would indicate this. Bee will abscond from a tree after a few yrs, moths consume whats left, and next year, a new swarm moves in as it is now clean frpm mites and everything else. I am uncertain how this relates to traditional hives, but its somehting i have noticed w/ feral hives.