Mel disselkoen and raising queens

gmcharlie · February 08, 2009, 12:59:35 PM

Thanks to a link on here I read the MDA method of queen rearing AND AM GOING TO GO FULL TILT. Seems simple and faboulously easy!.

2 questions if any one knows, first, why kill off the brood surrounding the new queen cells(he use wheat flour) why not just leave them bee, more workers doesn't seem like it would ever be an issue?

2. any tips on identifying 36 hour old Larve> he seems adamant about it but I didn't find any good pics.

RogerB · February 08, 2009, 06:40:15 PM

Do you remember the link? I tried to search for MDA Queen Rearing and Mel Disselkoen and came up blank both times. Thanks.

Roger

gmcharlie · February 08, 2009, 07:29:47 PM

http://www.mdasplitter.com/index.htm

its an excellent plan and very simple! read all the info on his site and you will realize the guy is pretty sharp!

Brian D. Bray · February 08, 2009, 09:32:22 PM

Thanks for the link, I bookmarked it for later perusing and edification.

Scadsobees · February 09, 2009, 05:01:06 PM

I'm not sure of the MDA method, but if I'm not mistaken it is so that you can raise queens without special queen equipment or grafting. Probably not something for the larger queen raisers, but for a few queens it probably works fine.

Identify the larvae that you want, cover them, then kill the surrounding larvae. This will cause the bees to pick the larvae where you want them to, and they will easily draw down those queen cell into the surrounding cells if they need to.

Rick

gmcharlie · February 09, 2009, 06:15:16 PM

yes, thats his principle. the key to it is that you break the cell on the bottom to prompt them to use that cell. Queen cells appear on edges and cups because they want to build downward for queens. So thats why you break the bottom out. makes them repair it in that direction. the question was why kill off the other larve? There must be a reason? If you were after queens by themselves in an incubator okay, but in general why bother killing off the rest of the larve??

JD · February 09, 2009, 11:48:58 PM

Interesting reading. Sounds simple enough. I like the part of breaking up the varro mite's cycle. Makes sense to me.

Scadsobees · February 10, 2009, 12:12:42 AM

You kill the other larvae so that the bees pick the remaining larvae for queens. That way you can control the location of the queen cells on the frames. If you don't kill the others, then the bees may or may not use the larvae that you wan them to.

I read a similar idea in a little pamphlet in my local library. The guy would use bullets, I don't remember the caliber, to cover up the larvae that he wanted to be queens, and then would powder the rest and kill them. He actually spelled out words on a frame and the bees drew out queen cells in the shapes of the words. This way, if I recall correctly, didn't break any of the bottoms of the cells, the bees take care of that.

Rick

Michael Bush · February 10, 2009, 11:23:16 PM

The caliber was .257 (25). If you don't kill some of them you often end up with a cluster of queen cells. Killing the larvae around the cell you want prevents this. The cluster of cells is difficult to separate.

gmcharlie · February 12, 2009, 12:23:41 PM

Thanks Mike, that makes sense.... now the only trick is figuring out how to identify 36 hour old larve.... no pics to be found for reference as of yet. I am sure I can handle that though. why larve only, seems to me if you did the same thing to an egg its going to hatch in a day or so anyway...?

Charlie

Brian D. Bray · February 13, 2009, 12:13:14 AM

Quote from: gmcharlie on February 12, 2009, 12:23:41 PM
Thanks Mike, that makes sense.... now the only trick is figuring out how to identify 36 hour old larve.... no pics to be found for reference as of yet. I am sure I can handle that though. why larve only, seems to me if you did the same thing to an egg its going to hatch in a day or so anyway...?

Charlie

Look for the ones that have fattened out from the slim mini rice grain of a new egg or those that have both ends of the egg touching the bottom of the cell similar to an upside down U. Those are the ones that are about ready to hatch into larvae. Usually those that have laid down on their sides are too old for queen selection except in desperate situations.

Michael Bush · February 13, 2009, 05:22:14 PM

There's a wet spot in the bottom of the cell with an imperfection in the surface (the larvae). If you can SEE the larvae, it's almost too old. :)

gmcharlie · February 14, 2009, 09:52:14 AM

Now thats and Excellent tip! very visual! Thanks

BjornBee · February 15, 2009, 08:11:19 AM

Most queen rearing books, "Queen Rearing" by Laidlaw and Eckert as example, will have detailed pictures of eggs, larvae, and the size you should be selecting.

If the book's knowledge makes one extra queen for you, or keeps you from having one bad graft, then it certainly is worth the investment in a 20 dollar book.

I do not graft eggs. I graft first day larvae, normally easily seen with proper lighting and setup.

Yappy · April 08, 2010, 02:16:38 PM

I just found this thread, a year late, but is anyone using the newer OTS method?
It is by Mel Disselkoen, no flouring or horizontal frames used that I could see.
Any pros or cons?