VINEGAR HONEY - emailed question to me.

[beemaster]

Hi All:

Below is a question I received via email - I replied to it and also asked the emailer to look for this post. Here is his question, I'll reserve my answer, but I think it is fairly logical answer, please give your opinions, so he has more than just my opinion. Thanks


Beemaster:

Why has some of my stored honey turned to vinegar over the winter? I have it stored in a cool place in my basement in glass jars. Some of the jars have turned to sugar with a small amount clear honey on the bottom of the jar. These are the ones that have turned.
What am I doing wrong?

RLW

[tlynn]

Just a guess - did you extract some frames that the bees had not yet capped?  If so then not enough moisture had been removed from the honey and so it fermented.  I'm only in my second year as a beekeeper so look for answers from the more experienced folks :-)

Tracy

[johnnybigfish]

Boy, this is interesting for sure!
I dont have a clue, but I now wonder if it will happen to me too.
I have a question back for you though, while waiting for an explanation.....
Does it taste like vinegar you can use for something? I mean, is it good, or is it lousy?

your friend,
john

[fermentedhiker]

I would have to say he had some uncapped honey that fermented and then was contaminated and converted to vinegar.  Vinegar is usually caused by fruit flies getting into the fermenting must(if you were intentionally making mead) as they carry a bacteria that consumes the must and converts some of it acetic acid.

[Camp9]

The moisture was to high when you extracted.  That's the only way it can ferment.  

Camp

[beemaster]

I'll go ahead and give my answer, which most/alll of you have mentioned - it seems like nectar got jarred befor it had matured by dehydration into honey. If he had left them in hive boxes, then the fermentation and the boozee smell would have been a dead give away, being jarred obviously has a slightly different aroma about it.

Good work all - I think that surely shows that just because it has made it to the cells, you need to let the bees seal them and give them time to mature some before tackling jarring or any form of saving the honey. I hope the author of this post joins and lets us know who he is in the GREETING FORUM - I know that he had great intentions, but needs a bit of added experience, so I sent him a link to this post and to the main forum home page and asked him to register - no matter if all is right or wrong with your hives or products from the hives, being part of our large group adds great support to work through the issues that may seem logical, but has a single step missed that could cause wasted byproducts or even health issues if consumed.

Everyone else, feel free to keep commenting if you have other ideas, is there ANY WAY to say any of this "vinagar crop" or is it usable in any way or is it strictly ready for the trash? is there a salvation to this jarred crop that didn't lay up or should it be flushed down the sink?

Thanks for replying.

[JP]

Uncapped honey may be below the 18% moisture mark, it may not be. It should be consumed before capped honey.

This is where a refractometer really comes in handy. But even if uncapped honey is tested for moisture content and comes up below the 18% mark, it should be harvested immediately as honey as we know is hydroscopic, meaning, it will absorb moisture from the air.


...JP

[Camp9]

It would depend on the alc. content, but there has never been a food pathogen found in wine if it turned into mead.  Being it was in a sealed jar (I'm guessing) it would of had an carbonic fermentation, being void of O2.  Usually vinegar need lots of o2, fruit flys, or mother of vinegar to make vinegar.  If any of his jars or bottling equipment had vinegar in it that would defiantly start the process.  If it made mead and you don't like mead, you can always make it into vinegar.  All kind of options so you don't have to throw it down the drain. 

Camp

[rdy-b]

what i find odd is that they said liquid on bottom of jar -when honey crystallizes it turns hard from the bottom of the jar first -and works its way up -this has the effect of forcing the extra moisture up-and the concentration becomes greater and if conditions are right it will ferment-just like mead-to make vinegar you have to have reached fermentation -for the first step-but like i said this process is from bottom up not top down-perhaps i missed something      8-) -RDY-B

[beemaster]

rdy-b:

Congrats on 1000 posts and thanks for being a great member :)

[Michael Bush]

Honey vinegar is worth more money than honey.  Sell it.  :)

Your moisture content was too high.  My bet is that it's not vinegar (although that is possible) but rather fermented with yeast which would make it the beginings of mead.

[Brian D. Bray]

Honey vinegar is worth more money than honey.  Sell it.  :)

Your moisture content was too high.  My bet is that it's not vinegar (although that is possible) but rather fermented with yeast which would make it the beginings of mead.

I concur.  From past experience I ran into this same issue (hasn't most novice beekeepers?).  Honey when uncapped will become sour smelling but will not be vinegar but the beginnings of mead as long as it was capped in the jar and not contaminated in some way.  The fact that a separation took place

Some of the jars have turned to sugar with a small amount clear honey on the bottom of the jar. These are the ones that have turned.

indicates that some sort of contamination of unripe honey took place sometime during the processing from comb to jar.  During the processing the ripe and unripe honey will be comingled and strange things can happen.  I would suggest continue the process needed to convert it to either honey vinegar or mead.