foundationless hive help needed

oldenglish · April 26, 2009, 07:35:33 PM

Out of the four hives I started this year only one has gone bad, they are building across the frames, what do I need to do to fix this mess ?

steveouk · April 26, 2009, 07:37:36 PM

I had a few do that, i found there was nothing i could do unless i wanted to loose the frame. if its on your langs' then leave it till next season. When you swap the boxes over you can remove the frame melt it in a solar waxer and then reuse the frame

oldenglish · April 26, 2009, 07:56:44 PM

Quote from: steveouk on April 26, 2009, 07:37:36 PM
I had a few do that, i found there was nothing i could do unless i wanted to loose the frame. if its on your langs' then leave it till next season. When you swap the boxes over you can remove the frame melt it in a solar waxer and then reuse the frame

When I put the next hive body on, should I use foundation to get them back on track

Kathyp · April 26, 2009, 07:59:12 PM

did you use starter strips? i have stopped giving them an entire box with no foundation. even one sheet, or 1/2 sheet seems to help them not to do this. starter strips work reasonably well, but i have had a couple of hives mess those up also.

how many frames are like that?

fermentedhiker · April 26, 2009, 08:03:08 PM

could you cut them off and do the rubber band thing as if they were a cutout maybe putting a frame of foundation in the middle like Kathyp does.

oldenglish · April 26, 2009, 08:05:44 PM

They have crossed about half the frames, I did use a starter guide, which was the top wedge turned 90 degrees, worked fine on the other hives

steveouk · April 26, 2009, 08:46:01 PM

i think once they start doing it "their way" there is no way to stop it unless you want to loose the frame. You might be better off putting starter strips 1" inch strip of thin surplus foundation.

slaphead · April 26, 2009, 08:48:17 PM

The wax is probably too soft right now to cut these off and rubber band them without doing a lot of damage.

Reckon you'll be better off waiting and following Steveouk's advice.

In the meantime you can enjoy the marvel and ingenuity of this particular colony. Perhaps it has a "teenage" personality 8-)

SH

oldenglish · April 26, 2009, 09:49:45 PM

I will leave them to do their thing and when I place the second hive body on I will put in a frame of foundation to try to get em on track.

Brian D. Bray · April 27, 2009, 12:07:22 AM

When the bees start building combs crosswise to the frames you have 2 choices, remove the combs and replace them or break the combs up so that the portions that might fit the frame correctly are allowed to remain and the rest is removed.
If this is in the brood box it is best to remove it and make them start over on drawing the comb.

Try slipping a piece of type writer paper down between the frames. It is a bit heavier than news print and it will take them a little longer to remove it. In that time, hopefully they will begin building the combs down the guide.

oldenglish · April 27, 2009, 02:02:57 AM

Quote from: Brian D. Bray on April 27, 2009, 12:07:22 AM
When the bees start building combs crosswise to the frames you have 2 choices, remove the combs and replace them or break the combs up so that the portions that might fit the frame correctly are allowed to remain and the rest is removed.
If this is in the brood box it is best to remove it and make them start over on drawing the comb.

Try slipping a piece of type writer paper down between the frames. It is a bit heavier than news print and it will take them a little longer to remove it. In that time, hopefully they will begin building the combs down the guide.

Thanks Brian, I am concerned that if I try to correct the combs now I will end up doing a lot of damage, I also dont want to risk hurting the queen. I will take another look tomorrow and if possible I will try to correct and will put some paper between the combs. If it looks like I am doing more harm than good I will just leave then until next year when they have moved up and then deal with it then.

abeeco · April 27, 2009, 04:57:38 AM

I would say you are better off doing a cut out (or trying to-- yes it is hard with brand new comb, especially when it has nectar stored in it...) NOW than letting them continue to draw more comb that is off... if nothing else try brian's tip using sheets of paper, and replace all the (still unused) empty frames with foundation...

when cutting it out-
do it very carefully, and you will do some damage to the edges of the comb but should be able to tie it in successfully. I like to use thin strips of cotton but most seem to prefer rubber bands around the top bar
or split frames "swarm catching frame"

once they are off, it will probably just get worse.... even w/ a new package and the pictures you show, I would certainly cut out and tie in the crooked comb

oldenglish · April 27, 2009, 10:39:45 AM

Forecast is for increasing clouds and showers until thursday. Right now they are saying sunny and 65 on friday so looks like I have some time to stew on this one. Its going to get messy, I can smoke the bees off the frame as best as I can but I think there will be a lot of angry off bees once I start cutting comb.

I think as I get each piece cut out I will place in a new frame and try to set it back in the original box as I work, hopefully the bees will work there way to the frames as I replace them.