Foundationless frames VS Top Bar

alfred · May 10, 2009, 10:26:42 AM

I have been using one piece plastic frames/foundation so far and I am mostly happy with it but I am thinking of trying to do some foundationless. I am thinking of this because it seems like it could be even easier and that the bees may draw more consistant comb quiker and because it looks like it might be cheeper.

I have a question though: What is the difference between foundationless and just using a topbar? It seems from the pictures that I have seen that they never build comb onto the side or bottom of a full frame anyway so why not just use the top bar only? This would be even cheeper and easier...

Alfred

bassman1977 · May 10, 2009, 11:42:52 AM

So I understand your question better, do you mean use top bars in a langstroth hive? If so, personally I don't see a problem with it. I have had top bars in a langstroth for a little while so that I could have some top bars drawn out when I got ready to use my top bar hive. The top bars were actually intermixed with standard frames. They drew it out nicely.

alfred · May 10, 2009, 11:55:43 AM

Yes I mean to continue using standard langstroth boxes. I use all mediums.

I guess I am mostly wondering if maybe the foundationless frames have some advantage over just using plain top bars?

Alfred

Robo · May 10, 2009, 12:31:53 PM

Quote from: alfred on May 10, 2009, 11:55:43 AM
Yes I mean to continue using standard langstroth boxes. I use all mediums.

I guess I am mostly wondering if maybe the foundationless frames have some advantage over just using plain top bars?

Alfred

1. You can remove the frames without comb damage. (ie. no comb attached to super walls)
2. You can separate the supers without major hassle or catastrophic comb failure. (ie. comb won't be attached to top of frames in the super below)

alfred · May 25, 2009, 05:30:02 PM

Thanks for the info I think that I will give foundationless a try.

WayneW · May 25, 2009, 06:03:16 PM

I am changing over to foundationless frames. All my supers are foundationless and some of my brood boxes.

One thing i have to say is that they seem to LOVE to build drone comb on foundationless frames.
I had 3 deep frames ALL drone, both sides. On my package that i hived 2 weeks ago they are doing better, there is some drone, but spotty, not at all like the deeps i have it in.

Kind of annoying, but it's liveable.

alfred · May 25, 2009, 06:42:06 PM

i wonder what that is about? :?

Alfred

Michael Bush · May 25, 2009, 06:54:08 PM

With just a top bar, you have problems in a vertical arrangement with connections to the box below. With a frame you don't have that problem. Also with a frame you have better support and better protection for the comb. Also you have an easy solution for bad comb. Just rubber band it in a frame.

Brian D. Bray · May 26, 2009, 02:16:06 AM

Quote from: WayneW on May 25, 2009, 06:03:16 PM
One thing i have to say is that they seem to LOVE to build drone comb on foundationless frames.
I had 3 deep frames ALL drone, both sides. On my package that i hived 2 weeks ago they are doing better, there is some drone, but spotty, not at all like the deeps i have it in.

Drone combs make good honey storage combs for overwintering. Just move them to the outside of the box and let the bees fill them with stores. Frames #1 & 10 are always storage combs anyway. Or move them up into the supers and put new frames in the broodchamber so the bees will build more worker combs.