Italian to Russian requeening

Big John · May 22, 2009, 05:00:30 PM

Ordered new Russian queen to replace Italian queen, supplier (Walter Kelly Co.) said for me to wait until I received my new queen to pinch the old one and to lay her (the old queen) on top of the queen cage so the hive will know she is dead and they would accept the new queen better. Have never heard of the technique before has anyone.

TwT · May 23, 2009, 10:15:33 AM

nope never heard of that, best way to introduce Russian into Italian is when installing in hive leave all plugs in queen cage for about 5 days, then pull plugs and let the release her, remember to watch for and remove queen cells until she gets to laying good.

dpence · May 23, 2009, 10:55:41 AM

I agree with TWT, also don't pinch the old queen, put her in a nuc. Brian suggested that and its been good policy for me. That way you have backup plan if the new queen isn't accepted or doesn't pan out. Just my .02

David

JP · May 23, 2009, 11:07:17 AM

Never heard of that one either. Remove the queen twenty four hours before introducing the new queen, so the hive realizes its queenless.

I would place the Russian queen atop the frames and see how the bees react to her. I would still introduce her caged, but if it looks like they want her, I would let them have her after a few days or so. No offense, but five days sounds a little extreme IMO, unless there are obvious acceptance issues.

You can tell pretty much right off if they are accepting of a new queen by their behaviour towards her. Are they agitated, trying to bite or sting? Or do they converge on her trying to lavish her with their proboscis?

...JP

TwT · May 23, 2009, 11:12:23 AM

Quote from: JP on May 23, 2009, 11:07:17 AM

No offense, but five days sounds a little extreme IMO, unless there are obvious acceptance issues.

no offense taken but introducing a Russian queen into a Italian hive takes more time than introducing a italian queen into that hive, 5 days hurts nothing but insures a good introduction.

Big John · May 23, 2009, 01:23:30 PM

Thanks for the replies, I had planed to pinch the queen 24hrs before putting in the new queen and leave the plugs in for 2 days,then remove it and let the girls eat the candy plug out.

bugleman · May 24, 2009, 09:10:49 PM

I have heard that smearing the old queen on the landing board puts everyone one on notice. :evil:

fermentedhiker · May 24, 2009, 09:25:50 PM

this is an excerpt from a pdf on www.warmcolorsapiary.com SARE grant report released.

Objective #1 - The introduction of Russian Queens to Italian colonies showed no
significant difference in acceptance as a result of varying release times.
• Of the three test groups one Queen from each group was not accepted. Two after
release into the colony and one was found dead in her cage. This is a 6 1/2%
rejection rate for each of the three test groups. We reintroduced a second Queen to
each of these colonies and were successful on the second introduction.
(See Events Table A for specific dates and days)

Big John · June 15, 2009, 07:00:50 AM

Removed old queen 24hrs before introducing new queen, left plugs in for 2 1/2 days, removed and queen was released when I checked hive on 3 Jun, 2 days later. Checked hive on 7 Jun found new eggs and saw queen, checked again on 14 Jun lots of new eggs and lava, no queen cells, hive looks like it will be fine.

Irwin · June 16, 2009, 12:25:49 PM

Good for you :-D

trapperbob · July 12, 2009, 10:27:47 PM

The commercial guy I worked for years ago used to pinch the old queen and leave her in the hive to be carried out by the hive he swore that they excepted the new queens better. I'm not sure if they excepted the new one better or not but he seldom had to go back and do it again.

paulh · July 13, 2009, 02:20:53 AM

Quote from: bugleman on May 24, 2009, 09:10:49 PM
I have heard that smearing the old queen on the landing board puts everyone one on notice. :evil:

What is that???
is this good advice???

Seriously, I want to to know if this is something that should be done?

paulh · July 13, 2009, 02:51:06 AM

Quote from: paulh on July 13, 2009, 02:20:53 AM
Quote from: bugleman on May 24, 2009, 09:10:49 PM
I have heard that smearing the old queen on the landing board puts everyone one on notice. :evil:

What is that??? On notice for what?
is this good advice to requeen ???

Seriously, I want to to know if this is something that should be done?

bugleman · July 25, 2009, 04:29:30 AM

Just like leaving the body of the old queen in the hive. The scent is there but they know something is wrong.

With smearing the queen on the landing board all those grumpy field bees get the word very quick that they need a new queen because they can see she is dead.

Jim134 · July 25, 2009, 08:49:50 AM

Quote from: Big John on May 22, 2009, 05:00:30 PM
Ordered new Russian queen to replace Italian queen, supplier (Walter Kelly Co.) said for me to wait until I received my new queen to pinch the old one and to lay her (the old queen) on top of the queen cage so the hive will know she is dead and they would accept the new queen better. Have never heard of the technique before has anyone.

Yes I heard of the technique before but do not like it.I agree with TWT, also don't pinch the old queen, put her in a nuc.That way you have backup plan if the new queen isn't accepted or doesn't pan out. I like this and done it and it has work will for me IMO

You may like reading this by Dan Conlon

http://www.warmcolorsapiary.com/Documents/RussianManagement07.pdf

   http://www.warmcolorsapiary.com/Documents/SareRussian.pdf



BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

jimmy · July 25, 2009, 12:45:41 PM

Guess I have grown soft in my later years ,I wouldn't have the heart to kill an old queen . Why not just retire her with a few from her court into a different box?

fish_stix · July 27, 2009, 09:51:54 PM

Have you noticed that these are insects! Also known as bugs! :-D

shemer · July 31, 2009, 02:51:02 PM

I am from Russia and I wonder why would anyone wanna trade Italian for Russian, as the later are much more aggressive and hard to work with. Folks gradually replace Russian bees here for other breeds, sorry for my English.

Brian D. Bray · August 01, 2009, 02:33:18 AM

Quote from: shemer on July 31, 2009, 02:51:02 PM
I am from Russia and I wonder why would anyone wanna trade Italian for Russian, as the later are much more aggressive and hard to work with. Folks gradually replace Russian bees here for other breeds, sorry for my English.

The grass is always greener on the otherside of the fence.

But realistically, I've had Italian bees for 50 years, Russian bees only for the past 2 years. When comparing the Russian Bees to Italian Bees, I will take the Russian Bee over the Italian Bee every time in my area due to the Russian bee's ability to survive in cold temperatures, induce brood dearths to both fight varroa mites and conserve resources between honey flows, and overwinter in smaller cluster that helps insure adequate stores lasts through long winters. With Italians, they will overwinter in large clusters, more prone to starvation due to cluster size and are aclimated to shorter winters, They also keep the populatiion of the hive at large numbers, continuously rearing brood, all summer long and consuming more of the foraged crop.

sarafina · August 02, 2009, 11:53:04 PM

I was real tempted to requeen my aggressive hive with a Russian queen, but after talking to Walter Kelly, I decided to stick with the Italians. Mainly because he said the Russians were a bit more aggressive than the Italians and I was getting worn out dealing with my hot bees. I don't have over-wintering issues as it rarely freezes where I am at so there is no advantage there with the Russians. The varroa resistance is appealing, but folks around here also talk of their tendency to swarm a lot.