Second hive crashing - need to vent!

HomeBru · May 25, 2009, 09:30:54 AM

Recap: 13-year-old son wanted to start raising bees so we started with two packages on foundationless, all mediums after spending a winter researching and especially reading here and MB's site.

Extremely crappy spring weather, the first hive absconded after two weeks and now it looks like the second hive is queenless and full of laying workers. They're not building out very quickly and not taking syrup very fast. Lots of drones and the cells with eggs have anywhere from three to seven eggs in each! Anything that's capped looks like drones. We're just going to let this hive sit and go where it goes, most likely it'll die out in a month and we'll start over again next spring. :(

I'd like to try nucs from someone local next spring, but the guys I spoke with at the local beeks club all belittled me for going with mediums and foundationless so I'm not in a hurry to go back there for more abuse. If it were just me, I'd shrug and chalk it up to experience but when kids are involved, it's a lot harder to take failure...

Anybody know of an experienced beekeeper in NW Indiana, SW Michigan, or NE Illinois who's open to foundationless or all medium hives and might have a couple nucs to sell next spring?

thx. J-

DaveKow · May 25, 2009, 09:44:54 AM

Try these folks. They are in FAIRMOUNT, IL 61841. I don't know if he uses med. or foundationless, but I don't think you will get belittled. I bought my first hive equipment off or them on ebay. I emailed them a couple times for advice and they were very helpful.

http://www.honeybeesonline.com/contact.html

Sorry to hear about your circumstance. I am sure it will just be a bump on your beekeeping road.

fishawk · May 25, 2009, 10:40:25 AM

Can you order a queen and give them a boost? It sucks to loose a hive but like Dave says just a bump in the road in a long lessons in beekeeping. I always use mediums thats not your problem my view. I learn some thing new every year keep at it.

Kathyp · May 25, 2009, 10:40:34 AM

i think most nucs are done on deep frames. you may have to get a few deep supers if you do nucs. it's a good way to go. should be a safer bet than packages. also consider putting yourself on the swarm lists. good experience for you and kids and free bees.

luvin honey · May 25, 2009, 10:46:47 AM

I'm so sorry it's not working well for you. :'( I have kids, too, and it's so disappointing to have things go badly for the kids.

I don't have anything to offer, just support for you sticking to your original plans and keeping at it. Beekeeping my first year and it's starting to look like luck might have a lot to do with it! I think I did nearly everything wrong and the girls are doing great. It sounds like you did everything right, and they still didn't. Much better luck to you netx time!

Kathyp · May 25, 2009, 11:28:25 AM

this won't make you our your son feel better now, but sometimes failure is an important lesson also.

Michael Bush · May 25, 2009, 11:34:08 AM

Rude people are best ignored. I find in beekeeping a lot of prejudice to a particular method. Either the one in the books or the one they were taught by someone else. That would be fine if they weren't rude to people who are doing it differently. Quite a few of those old beekeepers (I suppose I'm an "old beekeeper" so I don't mean any disrespect with that term) sincerely believe that any other way won't work and are just trying to save you from what they perceive as certain failure. I've actually heard these quite often:

"Bees cannot make comb without foundation." Seriously? I wonder how they survived all those millennia without us.

"Bees cannot survive without beekeepers." I wonder what the bees would think of this arrogance...

"If you use foundationless they will build nothing but drone comb." Again, then how would they have survived?

As far as the size of the frames or the size of the box, it's obvious that the bees simply don't care. In nature they take what they can find.

HomeBru · May 25, 2009, 05:44:32 PM

Thanks all, sometimes you just need to whine to a group of "friendly" ears and it all feels better... ;)

From the headaches I've read about trying to re-queen a hive with laying workers, and the fact that this hive isn't all that strong any more, I think it's best to just let them wear out. That and my budget's shot for the year. I teach HS Biology and also have a small "organic" truck farm so I'm more inclined to side with the bees than "the way it's always been done". That and my stubborn nature don't always mix well with the status quo.

Thanks to all of the "Old Beekeepers" (your words, Michael!) willing to share their knowledge, experience, and patience with all of us new-bees! The attitudes, experience, and sense of community here are invaluable!

J-

Natalie · May 25, 2009, 06:16:05 PM

Man I feel bad for you guys. I know what you mean about the kids being involved. Its tough to disappoint them.
I bought my 6 year old son his own hive this year and I know how badly he would feel if it absconded or did not do well.
I hope someone can help you guys out. As Kathy said, as much as its stinks sometimes you can learn from your experiences, maybe you can recap how you did things and figure out if there is anything you can do differently next time.
As far as box size and types of frames, it means nothing as Michael said so do not let those people intimidate you or especially not belittle you.
I know because I caught the same crap from people at my club as well but I did all 8 frame mediums on foundationless frames and topbar hives and am not using any chemicals in the hive, so they had a field day with me.
However, while I am not having any problems with my 10 hives being handled this way some of the people that gave me grief had had their hives die out, starve etc.
Its not the method in which you are doing it since many of us are doing the same and did not have the same problems.
Give it another try, I hope someone here can hook up with you.

DaveKow · May 25, 2009, 09:00:36 PM

There was a guy at our bee meeting that collects swarms, and once he gets enough for himself, he gives them away. Maybe you could find out about something like that. Check with your local exterminators, and county Ag office and find out who collects swarms around you. I think if you explain your situation, that someone would give you some bees. It doesn't cost anything to try. After all, it is about the kids.

Just a thought.