Vertical vs. Horizontal

dpence · June 19, 2009, 10:55:06 AM

Hello all,
Just wanted to concur with wise information gathered here. My experience shows that splits will build up faster in two vertical 5 frame nuc deeps than one 10 frame standard hive body. I have three splits that I need to move to ten frame boxes that are in two-story nucs now. Thanks for the great advice.

David

Hethen57 · June 19, 2009, 01:13:48 PM

Thanks for the tip. I was getting ready to move some nucs to 10 frame hive bodys this weekend, but I think I will build a couple of 5 frame nuc supers and try those to get the additional frames built out quicker. It makes sense for them to build up in a "chimney" rather than build outward, as they are trying to increase hive numbers. Probably holds true overall, but is just isn't as efficient or practical to do so.

doak · June 19, 2009, 08:21:11 PM

JMO, They are going to build up as fast as they are going to, re guard less of configuration of the hive.
doak :)

TwT · June 19, 2009, 09:34:48 PM

Quote from: doak on June 19, 2009, 08:21:11 PM
JMO, They are going to build up as fast as they are going to, re guard less of configuration of the hive.
doak :)

I agree, different hives build up at different speeds, I have seen both build up fast.

Brian D. Bray · June 21, 2009, 01:09:45 AM

It's nice to know that someone's been listening.

Robo · June 21, 2009, 11:33:51 AM

Quote from: dpence on June 19, 2009, 10:55:06 AM
Hello all,
Just wanted to concur with wise information gathered here. My experience shows that splits will build up faster in two vertical 5 frame nuc deeps than one 10 frame standard hive body. I have three splits that I need to move to ten frame boxes that are in two-story nucs now. Thanks for the great advice.

David

Want even fast build up, try polystyrene nucs. It's all about the heat. My poly nucs explode compared to the wooden equivalent.

doak · June 28, 2009, 04:28:12 PM

You cannot enter the heat into the equation due to the time of year and extreme difference in climate
between two extreme geographical locations.
On average, the shape and the size of the brood cluster plus the unused space with in the hive body has as much if not more to do with the heat factor than what material the hive body is made from.
:)doak

dragonfly · June 29, 2009, 02:45:59 PM

Quote from: Robo on June 21, 2009, 11:33:51 AM

Want even fast build up, try polystyrene nucs. It's all about the heat. My poly nucs explode compared to the wooden equivalent.

That's interesting. This is the first year I have kept the bottom of my hive relatively closed up from the generous ventilation they usually have (by minimizing air flow to the screened bottom board). This year, my hive population is considerably larger than in past years. I have attributed it to the possibility of a new queen (which still may be), but I wonder if a physically hotter environment had anything to do with it?

Robo · June 29, 2009, 04:03:04 PM

Quote from: doak on June 28, 2009, 04:28:12 PM
You cannot enter the heat into the equation due to the time of year and extreme difference in climate
between two extreme geographical locations.

You are correct, climate plays a significant factor in how we manage bees and what works best for each of us. It is often overlooked when responding to someone, mostly unintentionally as we just subconsciously think everyone lives the same as we do.

Quote
On average, the shape and the size of the brood cluster plus the unused space with in the hive body has as much if not more to do with the heat factor than what material the hive body is made from.

Likewise, this may be true in your area, but it is definitely not true here. If not for the heat, how can you explain a yard of 20 nucs with the queens all raised from the same mother queen and all mated in the same yard. 10 where polystyrene, and 10 where wood. 8 out of 10 polystyrene hives where significantly stronger than the wooden nucs and the remaining 2 where equally as strong as the strongest wood nucs.

Finski · September 06, 2009, 07:38:11 PM

.
My experience is that 10 frame hive builds up faster than 5 frame, and 20 frame grows faster than 10 frames.

I have a lot of experience in patty feeding, in electring heating of hives and polystyrene boxes.

There are limiting factors of brooding:

- number of feeder bees after winter or 2 weeks after swarming.

- cold nights

- good or bad weathers.

- Too good nectar flow stucks small hives quickly and they swarm (rape9

- nosema sick colony after winter

- Best of all is warm insulated hive boxes to small hives like one box colony.

In summer things are different but limiting factor is how much brood bees can keep warm.

.

ArmucheeBee · September 24, 2009, 05:02:13 PM

Judging by the title I thought this discussion would include some horizontal or long hives. I am thinking about building a long hive. Sounds like those who promote 10 frame as building up faster might lean toward long hives and those promoting 5 frame nucs would promote the common vertical approach. I talked to a man from Romania early this spring and he said many beeks in his country used long hives. He did not believe in going up. Question: what is your experience with long hives?

My own two cents: I had two med. nuc and 1 eight-frame build much faster than my three standard hives. One nuc is now 6 boxes high, the other 5 since June (near-dearth the whole time).