Honeybound brood box

nella · June 24, 2009, 09:31:31 AM

How much honey in a brood super would be considered honeybound?

Kathyp · June 24, 2009, 11:05:47 AM

is there room for the queen to keep laying? are there any frames that are not full/close to full of honey and brood?

beegrlAK · June 24, 2009, 01:12:21 PM

Hello Nella, I'm wondering the same thing. I've got one hive body with some crazy, lazy Carniolans. The queen was laying well, because now I have a hive body full of italian looking bees instead of carniolans. Now I can't find any fat little larvae, there's capped brood and only 8 fully draw frames and the queen is just kind of wandering around on one of the outer frames.

My other hive is like New York City, lot's of building, and my queen is laying in the second hive body which I pushed down to the bottom last night. I've added a third now.

Not quite sure what to do with that first colony. I'm almost ready to squash that queen and add those bees to my italians.

any ideas, yes you know I'm a first year beekeeper!

Kathyp · June 24, 2009, 01:23:09 PM

have you moved the outside frames toward the middle. put an empty on either side of the existing brood. have you added a second box? pull a frame or two of brood into the newly added box. place pulled frames above (or below) the existing brood. put empty frames from box two next to brood in box one.

if the queen does not have room to lay where the brood is, she will not lay. she will not move out to empty frames on the side and start another brood cluster. also, she will slow down or stop if there is not food coming in. what is your flow like? weather may impact her laying. how have your temps and rain been? has your old queen been replace and this is a new one that is not up to speed yet?

evaluate your hive before offing your queen :-)

beegrlAK · June 24, 2009, 04:46:56 PM

Kathy, I'm going out this afternoon and I'll try your suggestions. I thought about taking a nice drawn out frame from my other hive and placing it next to that queen. It was pretty dramatic when the second hive took off in building compared to the first one, I have a few weeks left here before the weather really turns again so maybe they'll catch up.

I'd like more foundation built up before fall, I probably won't overwinter this first year. I might next depending on the quality of our summer.

Thanks so much for your suggestions.

Kathyp · June 24, 2009, 04:49:40 PM

just don't break up the brood nest.

drawing out frames also depends on flow. no flow=no comb building. you'll have to watch and see how it goes.

beegrlAK · June 24, 2009, 06:32:28 PM

I took an almost built out frame out of my italian hive, (the bees did NOT like it) and put it next to the brood nest in my carniolans. Lots of activity today, bringing in pollen.

utahbeekeeper · June 24, 2009, 07:12:48 PM

Nella . . . to give you a direct answer, I don't worry if there are at least 4 frames per brood box for the queen. This fluxuates during the year and 6 is prolly the norm, but any less than 4 and you are honey/pollen bound.

Kathy is right on . . . when you make splits, take some of those frames of pollen and honey for the new hive, and free up some laying space.

One last thought . . . my GOAL in Utah is to be honey bound by mid October, so take into consideration your seasons, and let the bees pack it in later! We get a great flow on rabbit brush and other stuff in September and October.

JGP

Brian D. Bray · June 25, 2009, 12:57:14 AM

the Condition of Being honeybound can actually vary according to time of year. In the Fall, just prior to hibernation, you want the hive to be honeybound to the point of burr comb to insure adequate stores in the northern areas.

At a casual glance, and as a general rule, becoming honey bound is when you find cells of honey/nectar intermingled in what is normally the brood only portion of frames with in the brood chamber. The salt and peppering of brood and honey is the condition referred to. When found, it means the hives working storage area must be expanded in some way.

I just had to place empty frames within the brood chamber in a hive I split as there was no other options, a double stacked 8 frame medium had all 16 frames full of brood, it was getting ready to swarm. If all of the brood had hatched, even if it had swarm, there would have still been too many bees for the size of the hive as it was maxed out (I harvest a cup or honey from the burr comb). I removed 2 frames from each box for a split and still supered it. I also didn't care if the queen ended up in the split or the original hive. BTW, this is the 2nd time I've split that hive this year. I used much of its build out comb to speed up the development of 2 packages when I split it the 1st time, which left it with 8 frames of bees in 2 medium boxes.