New hive problem - HELP!

Started by handymandave, August 01, 2009, 11:28:57 PM

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handymandave

August 01, 2009, 11:28:57 PM
The first swarm I picked-up 4 days ago has used 3 gallons of 1:1, drawn out 4 1/2 deep frames of comb and has eggs in some of those new cells!

The problem is with the second swarm gathered the same day. They cluster around the entrance, showing no sign of foraging. They are clustered on one frame at the far side of the super and have only drawn out 3/4 of a frame. My wife and I have searched for a queen without success and there are no eggs yet.

What do you think? Do I read the signs correctly, that they do not have a queen? Should I do a newspaper combine with the other hive that is doing so well? If not, what should I do? I don't want to waste the bees but I would appreciate some guidance on what to do.

Thanks in advance!

Kathyp

#1
August 01, 2009, 11:35:17 PM
lots of swarms leave with a virgin queen.  she needs to go out and get mated before she can do her thing.  in the mean time, give that hive a frame of eggs and young larvae.  watch the hive.  if she gets lost, you'll have to requeen or combine.

if they are only one frame of bees, you may want to combine anyway.  not much chance of a big build up before winter.
The people the people are the rightful masters of both congresses and courts not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it.

Abraham  Lincoln
Speech in Kansas, December 1859

Joelel

#2
August 02, 2009, 11:00:48 AM
Quote from: kathyp on August 01, 2009, 11:35:17 PM
lots of swarms leave with a virgin queen.  she needs to go out and get mated before she can do her thing.  in the mean time, give that hive a frame of eggs and young larvae.  watch the hive.  if she gets lost, you'll have to requeen or combine.

if they are only one frame of bees, you may want to combine anyway.  not much chance of a big build up before winter.

So,your saying a hive will sometimes get a new queen and then swarm before she goes out to mate.
Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation

Kathyp

#3
August 02, 2009, 11:46:50 AM
lots of hive swarm more than once.  it is common for those after-swarms to go with a virgin queen.  she will mate when the hive settles. 

virgin queens are very hard to pick out.  many people assume they didn't get the queen with the swarm. 

you do have to watch these swarms and make sure the queen gets back to the hive from her mating flights.  this year, i lost two to the swallows. 
The people the people are the rightful masters of both congresses and courts not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it.

Abraham  Lincoln
Speech in Kansas, December 1859

Joelel

#4
August 02, 2009, 12:10:37 PM
Quote from: kathyp on August 02, 2009, 11:46:50 AM
lots of hive swarm more than once.  it is common for those after-swarms to go with a virgin queen.  she will mate when the hive settles. 

virgin queens are very hard to pick out.  many people assume they didn't get the queen with the swarm. 

you do have to watch these swarms and make sure the queen gets back to the hive from her mating flights.  this year, i lost two to the swallows. 

So,your saying many hives swarm time after time as soon as a queen is born ? Why would they keep swarming ?
Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation

Kathyp

#5
August 02, 2009, 01:23:57 PM
QuoteWhy would they keep swarming ?

i don't really have an answer to that.  maybe someone does.  some hives just seem to go into swarm mode and keep doing it.  i have always wondered if those hives did not kill emerging queens as most do.  why would they not?  i don't know.  most hives won't keep more than one queen, so they have to die or go.
The people the people are the rightful masters of both congresses and courts not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it.

Abraham  Lincoln
Speech in Kansas, December 1859

sc-bee

#6
August 02, 2009, 03:45:27 PM
Quote from: kathyp on August 02, 2009, 01:23:57 PM
QuoteWhy would they keep swarming ?

i don't really have an answer to that.  maybe someone does.  some hives just seem to go into swarm mode and keep doing it.  i have always wondered if those hives did not kill emerging queens as most do.  why would they not?  i don't know.  most hives won't keep more than one queen, so they have to die or go.

I agree with Kathy ;)! I don't know why either, I guess it is just natures way of reproduction and wanting to populate. I have had a strong hive swarm and throw numerous after swarms. Sometimes splitting the hive doesn't even help to stop a hive from swarming.

Add this one to the list above. Some folks belive in clipping queens (all queens not just breeders -- a totlly different subject). If the queen is clipped and can not fly, they will often leave with a virgin. They are in swarm mode and ready to go and they gonna go!
John 3:16

handymandave

#7
August 02, 2009, 09:54:15 PM
Thanks to everyone for the sage counsel. If there was a virgin, she is looking for the swarm many miles from here.
I will combine them with another hive using newspaper and hope for the best.
Thanks again to all!

Kathyp

#8
August 02, 2009, 10:01:44 PM
i think you misunderstand.  she would have been with the swam.  she will go on her mating flight when they find a home (your hive).  you only need to watch that she makes it back to your hive.  you should know in a week or two.
The people the people are the rightful masters of both congresses and courts not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it.

Abraham  Lincoln
Speech in Kansas, December 1859

bee-nuts

#9
August 03, 2009, 05:28:24 AM
Handymandave

Dont Panic.  There just has to be some misunderstanding going on here.

To clarify what is happening, I think you should start over and tell the story again with a little more detail.  Start from the very beginning of where and how you got your bees.  I'm sure this will help us understand what is going on?




The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory

Thomas Jefferson

handymandave

#10
August 03, 2009, 07:38:14 PM
Quote from: bee-nuts on August 03, 2009, 05:28:24 AM
Handymandave

Don't Panic.  There just has to be some misunderstanding going on here.

To clarify what is happening, I think you should start over and tell the story again with a little more detail.  Start from the very beginning of where and how you got your bees.  I'm sure this will help us understand what is going on?


OK.

I picked up the problem swarm last Wednesday evening. They were in a low branch and had made some silver dollar size pieces of comb that were intertwined with the leaves and branches. They spent the night in my homemade bee vac with a screened vent and were put in a deep super in the AM. I gave them a pollen patty and a quail waterer with a gallon of 1:1 syrup in a second super  on top of their frames.

Later that morning I discovered they had swarmed again and were resting in an apple tree next to my shop. I gathered them-up again and put them back in the hive. They have stayed.

The next day I went to check the syrup and discovered them clustered in the top corner of the top super, making comb and filling it with sugar. I cut it out and switched to a regular hive feeder, removing the top super. We looked very thoroughly but could not find a queen. Two days ago they were still clustered in one corner and were starting to draw some comb. About 30-40 gather at the entrance but do not seem to be foraging like the other hives.

So sage ones, what do I do?

iddee

#11
August 03, 2009, 08:37:21 PM
I thought your op was clear enough. You have a swarm small enough to fit on one frame. It is the beginning of August. Nothing else is relevant. The answer is....COMBINE...
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

handymandave

#12
August 03, 2009, 09:18:00 PM
Quote from: iddee on August 03, 2009, 08:37:21 PM
I thought your op was clear enough. You have a swarm small enough to fit on one frame. It is the beginning of August. Nothing else is relevant. The answer is....COMBINE...

I think that's what I do in the AM. However, there are probably 3 -4 frames of bees in total. Still, they should help the other hive get ready for the cold.
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