Splits--how long can they go queenless?

[theriverhawk]

Hey gang,
I split three really strong hives today and ordered new queens for the new nucs. Wanted to give the now queenless nucs a couple of days to recognize no queen, thus being more accepting to the new one.
Worked my tail off to find the old queens. Could only find her in one of the three. I'll open the nucs again in a couple of days to try to find the queens.

Question: On average, how many days do you think I can go queenless before having to deal with a laying worker? Just curious....

Thanks...

[Brian D. Bray]

Hey gang,
I split three really strong hives today and ordered new queens for the new nucs. Wanted to give the now queenless nucs a couple of days to recognize no queen, thus being more accepting to the new one.
Worked my tail off to find the old queens. Could only find her in one of the three. I'll open the nucs again in a couple of days to try to find the queens.

Question: On average, how many days do you think I can go queenless before having to deal with a laying worker? Just curious....

Thanks...

It can vary by the hive but somewhere between 10 and 45 days.  When you  get your queens don't put them immediately, put them in a dark dry place (like the shelf in your closet) and inspect the hives and spllits again befor introducing the queens.  The queenless hives will not have any eggs, only larvae and pupae, while the queenright hives will have fresh eggs.  Install the queens in the hives with no eggs.

[Joelel]

Hey gang,
I split three really strong hives today and ordered new queens for the new nucs. Wanted to give the now queenless nucs a couple of days to recognize no queen, thus being more accepting to the new one.
Worked my tail off to find the old queens. Could only find her in one of the three. I'll open the nucs again in a couple of days to try to find the queens.

Question: On average, how many days do you think I can go queenless before having to deal with a laying worker? Just curious....

Thanks...

If you made the splits and don't know where your queens are,When you go back in the hives look for fresh laid eggs,where you have them your queen is there. Put your new queens in where you have no new eggs. I would try to introduce the new queens in about three or four days. Read this about splits.

http://www.schoolnet.net.sb/courses/beekeeping1.0/how_to_split_a_hive.html

[lakeman]

Hey gang,
I split three really strong hives today and ordered new queens for the new nucs. Wanted to give the now queenless nucs a couple of days to recognize no queen, thus being more accepting to the new one.
Worked my tail off to find the old queens. Could only find her in one of the three. I'll open the nucs again in a couple of days to try to find the queens.

Question: On average, how many days do you think I can go queenless before having to deal with a laying worker? Just curious....

Thanks...

If you made the splits and don't know where your queens are,When you go back in the hives look for fresh laid eggs,where you have them your queen is there. Put your new queens in where you have no new eggs. I would try to introduce the new queens in about three or four days. Read this about splits.

http://www.schoolnet.net.sb/courses/beekeeping1.0/how_to_split_a_hive.html

I went in to this reccomended websight, and sort of liked what it looked like, so I tried to find its home sight, and clicked on "an introduction to beekeeping", and my anti virus gave me a very stern warning that the sight was infected, and blocked me from going into it.

[BjornBee]

riverhawk,
You have plenty of time before you need to worry about laying workers. Sorry Brian....it's not anything near 10-45 days  ;)

If you pulled a Queen, and called it Day 1, the following would happen...

Days 1 through 5, the hive will start to make queen cells.

Day 21, the last of the old queens workers will emerge.

Now keep in mind, whether they requeen or not, that is not the point. The point is that during this attempt at requeening, NO laying workers will develop.

Two things are primary inhibitors of workers developing into laying workers. 1) The queens pheromones. 2) Brood pheromones. (How long this pheromones last is suspect.)

But almost ALWAYS, you will not see development of laying workers until the last of the brood is emerged. And a real good management trick for long term queenless hives, like for queen banks, etc., is to feed in a fresh frame or two of capped brood every week. You can keep a hive from going "laying worker" all summer under the right conditions.

I would say if you pulled a queen today, and the hive did not get a queen or raise one themselves, you have at least 25 days. That would be as long as the hive had brood and all of it to emerge, drones included.

Hope this helps.

[David LaFerney]

What Bjorn said jives with this.  I did a trap out last summer starting July 4 that I started with a frame of eggs/brood.  After the usual time (about a month) I didn't see any evidence of a queen dispite having seen queen cells - she got ate, whatever.  So, I gave another frame of eggs/brood.  In early September I found a nice fat queen laying lots of brood, but the hive had been pretty much without a queen for over 2 months by then. 

[Two Bees]

If you transferred a variety of eggs, larva, and capped brood to the nuc, I understand that it only takes 1 day for them to realize that they are queenless.  Then, they select 3 day old eggs to make queen cells.  Sounds like you only have three days or less to get "bought" queens in the queenless nuc and get the newly-created queen cells out of the nuc before the purchased queen is released and goes about killing the queen cells.  Just what I have read or heard.

[Michael Bush]

Part of the reason for such wide variation in estimates of how long to get laying workers is that it has little to do with the queen and a lot to do with lack of open brood.  It's how long they are broodless that is really the issue.  if they have eggs and open brood you have at least four to six weeks.  If they don't you'll have less by a week or two depending on how long they have ALREADY been broodless.

[Lek]

Greeting to all from the Land down under......... About splitting hives, Each time I have done this, I order the Queen, she arrives by post, I then remove from the hive that I am splitting, 2 or 3 frames with heaps of bees on the frame,plus brood and eggs,couple with pollen and honey, place them into the new brood box, "immediately" put the new queen in [do not release her from the small cage she comes in] put the lid on, then move them to new location. I don't look into the box for 5 days, in the meantime the old bees are getting used to her smell, and at the same time eating the candy plug to release her , about 4 or 5 days later she out, and she set to start  work, never had any trouble, everyone else I know does the same procedure. The last  time I did that was little over a month ago, now it is a very strong hive, with top box on , frames being filled. ......Cheers Lek.

[Michael Bush]

I find leaving them queenless for two hours is effective.  Putting the queen in right away will work most of the time, but two hours will stack the deck more.