AHB cleansing

bee-nuts · August 20, 2009, 01:54:17 AM

This idea may make some people skin crawl but I wonder if...

If killer bees can't survive cold winters then at what percentage of the hive can the ahb gene survive. Meaning at what percentage of the hives population will ahb bring a hive to its death say at the border of Canada in Minnesota? If even a small percentage will bring them down then commercial beeks could rotate 25 percent of there hives to a location like this every winter, then bring them back in spring and of course keep them in a separate yard and make queens and increases from these only.

More than likely just another crazy nut ball idea of mine!!!

BULLSEYE BILL · August 20, 2009, 09:12:23 PM

The short answer is they don't know. The bee scientists that spoke at our state meeting believe that the line will shift from our Ks./Ne. border on warm winters to our Ks./Ok. border on cold winters. Remember that it is just speculation on their part, only time will tell.

bee-nuts · August 21, 2009, 02:23:41 AM

They stay in a certain geographical areas in Africa so there must be a limit to theres range here too. Don't you think? Its been twenty years since they crossed the US border. They would be almost everywhere in the country if they spread at there typical 200-300 miles a year.

Michael Bush · August 21, 2009, 04:44:48 AM

Since the USDA was shipping queens they mated with the same stock that Kerr had (they got it from Kerr) and they were shipping them to Madison, Laramie etc. and raising them about fifty years ago, I see no reason to believe they can't live in the North. But obviously the USDA now seems to think so...

BruinnieBear · August 22, 2009, 04:37:27 AM

Quote from: Michael Bush on August 21, 2009, 04:44:48 AM
Since the USDA was shipping queens they mated with the same stock that Kerr had (they got it from Kerr) and they were shipping them to Madison, Laramie etc. and raising them about fifty years ago, I see no reason to believe they can't live in the North. But obviously the USDA now seems to think so...

Interesting comment, Michael. It begs the question whether the feral population in southern Wisconsin is adapted (diluted? absorbed?) to the northern climate. I doubt there are many that remember keeping swarms collected in 1951.

I personally feel the biggest threat are potential swarms thrown from commercial pollination from the South in, say, the cranberry bogs or the cherry orchards. The difference is it's day one, again!

BB

BoBn · August 22, 2009, 08:51:44 AM

If you consider pests, diseases and physiological defects, it makes sense not to continually be spreading all of these problems across the country and around the world. Locally adapted bees are what I want. If they have so-called "africanized" genes, who cares? All honey bees supposedly originated on the African continent anyway. If they are what I want (survivors, disease & pest resistant, productive, frugal, gentle and easy to work) then I will keep them.

When I first started with bees In CT in the 1970s, I can remember one (rare) thing that all the "old-timers" agreed upon at the time:
If you get package bees, they usually don't amount to much until the bees make a new queen.

rast · August 22, 2009, 09:11:43 AM

Regarding the original post. My fear would be that if the hive has a queen with AHB genetics, the warmth of the cluster would enable her to survive the winter.
I don't think we should help them acclimatize to cold weather. They will probably do it fast enough by themselves. If indeed, it is cold that is slowing their spread north.

deknow · August 22, 2009, 11:28:23 AM

Quote from: BoBn on August 22, 2009, 08:51:44 AM
When I first started with bees In CT in the 1970s, I can remember one (rare) thing that all the "old-timers" agreed upon at the time:
If you get package bees, they usually don't amount to much until the bees make a new queen.

this probably deserves it's own thread. i've recently been shown some data on package bee survival both with their shipped queen, and those who were requeened with good local stock. the requeened colonies did much, much better.

when we did packages, i was always thrilled to see the queen supercede, as that was progress!

while on this, another thing that eems to be an issue is the use of plastic screen on the standard "3 hole queen cage" used in most packages. the queen produces pheremones from many places (particularly her manduibular gland), but also on the pads of her back feet. as she walks around the hive, she leaves a trail of a balanced mix of pheremones that let the bees know she is in good shape.

in a package, the bees chew at the queen's feet through the screen...and the plastic screen is prone to stretching a little. the workers can damage these glands, and the balance of the pheremones is upset. the bees can see this as a sign of a bad queen, and prompt them to replace her when they get the chance.

i've heard kim flottum talk about the above, and i've seen a study somewhere (but i can't place it at the moment)..

deknow

BoBn · August 22, 2009, 06:04:33 PM

Quote from: bee-nuts
. . . commercial beeks could rotate 25 percent of there hives to a location like this every winter, then bring them back in spring and of course keep them in a separate yard and make queens and increases from these only.

I think that this would be spreading pests (like SHB), diseases, poorly adapted bees weakening the local bees etc.