I did a cutout

Bee Happy · September 27, 2009, 10:28:49 PM

I would have really liked to have had a camera - my wife gave ours to her daughter, and we haven't replaced it yet.
My sister and my brother-in-law bought a place nearby and had a swarm that I couldn't get there quick enough to capture over the summer.
They have bay windows in the living room, and the way they're boxed up, there's a lot of dead space in there; well sis called me a few days ago and said the swarm must have moved there. So I saw them, and went back to them today and they were very very docile at first, but I didn't have a bee vac made, so I had to deal with the full hive, I'm pretty sure the swarm didn't move in there, the comb was crunchy, I think the swarm came from there.
without the bee vac, and a couple other complications the very docile hive got understandably a little defensive - especially as i moved closer to the brood combs. My brother in law did the actual cutting for me on the opening, and I think he made it a little bit small, but with his cordless circular saw running the bees didn't bither him at all - he wasn't suited up. he was pulling the access he cut out off, and did get a little sting when he stuck his hand in there - just one.
like I said though, the closer to the brood combs I got the madder those bees got. madder at my intruding hand, they didnt pour out on me, and my gear kept stingers and face bumpers off me. I guess I got about 5 frames worth of brood comb, not a very heavy pattern - she's probably gearing down for the slow months, and a couple empty storage frames. the framing in there vs my access was such that I wound up having to tear out a few of the combs (no angle to cut from)
I tried gently knocking bees off into my hands to try and get the queen to fall on them in a cluster, but that bothered them - I understand this though - I was in their house and working around their brood and queen, there are a lot of stingers in my gloves - a lot. I couldn't get the queen out that I know of, so i sort of made a compromise - I left the brood and storage close by and closed it up, fed them a watered down honey and smoked the existing hive - I figured if I made one place hospitabe and nice, and the other one inhospitable, the scouts would be moving the queen into the new hive. the inhospitable part worked pretty well, the remaining bees poured out of the entrance and started crawling up the wall - Hope I made the right guess here but worst case, the old hive should be out of the bay window and the new hive may have time to requeen themselves Hopefuly the existing queen just gets guided to the new hive in the 'fire induced' abscond.

Kathyp · September 27, 2009, 10:41:18 PM

if the queen is still in the wall, they will move back to her. you may well have gotten her if you took out the brood comb pretty much intact. that's usually where she is. if the bees were leaving the hive they may have been looking for her. you'll know tomorrow. they'll either be in the box, or back in the wall.....or all gone :-)

JP · September 28, 2009, 12:11:48 AM

You will need to go back asap and do an inventory check. As Kathy mentioned, if you didn't get her, the colony will be right back where they were. They will even abandon brood in most cases to go back to where they were.

Best of luck.

...JP

Bee Happy · September 28, 2009, 02:57:21 AM

thanks guys, I May have to look for some way to come up with a bee vac, even if I throw one together out of a cardboard box.

Kathyp · September 28, 2009, 01:07:33 PM

they are nice and speed things up, but not required. i have not gotten around to making mine. it's on the list of things to do. i have been doing a few cutouts a year without. if i did the number that JP and Iddee do, i'd feel more motivated to get mine done :-).

a couple of keys to doing them: take it slow. walk away if you need to. watch for tell-tale behavior of bees around queen. ignore all those bees around your head :-).

as you do more of them, you'll get a routing and more confidence. you'll get better at spotting the queen. you'll still get cutouts that will test you and some you swear you'll never do again.

do update us on yours!

Bee Happy · October 01, 2009, 06:00:16 AM

you guys took interest in the post, I did a quick easy bee vac from a plastic kitty litter bucket- with a screen and a pressure letoff. still no camera, and it's still untested (on bees) so I didn't start a new thread (this vac wouldn't qualify for bee storage, there's very little ventilation and definitely no replaceable insert box) - it's bound to demand an immediate emptying into a ready hive (which I have). but it cost me nothing since I had 6 small panhead screws, an extra bucket lid, and some hardware cloth. - I'll let you know how it turns out.

Kathyp · October 01, 2009, 07:39:18 PM

what was the end result with the cutout? as nice as a vac is, it's not, in my opinion, the most important thing on the list....obviously :-) since i have been doing them for a few years without.

if your bucket vac is good, let me know. buckets i have around!

Bee Happy · October 02, 2009, 05:46:12 PM

well I completely blew it, my inexperience cost me a hive of what seemed to be some really good feral stock. My sis told me she heard a pretty big buzz this morning before I went out there to run the vac. (meaning they probably all left about then.)
the vac is still untested, and they were gone when I got there.
I was right that I could make them uncomfortable enough to leave, and wrong that they could be attracted back to their own brood.
I suppose I'd rather lose the bunch than kill the queen in the awkward position I was trying to catch her in.
we're in the peak of a fall bloom, so hopefully they have found a decent place to be and can forage enough in time to get by reasonably.
I hope I can apply what I've learned.
The biggest lesson for me here is the boy scout motto: be prepared. - I went in unprepared for an awkward access, with no means to accommodate the problems caused by it.
I just hope next time I can successfully apply what I've learned.

Kathyp · October 02, 2009, 05:52:37 PM

oh well. happens to all of us. you learned something and that's important.

i am by no means a cutout expert like JP, iddee, and others, but i have done my fair share. i took one last year that was in an attic and it was a mess. didn't save the hive, got the snot stung out of me. only thing good was that we got the hive and mess out of the guys attic. other than that, it was a waste. still, i learned something from it and if i ever have to do one in a tight spot like that again, i'll do it differently.....or not at all :-D

SH but we learn from it.

kedgel · October 07, 2009, 10:57:14 PM

I've done a couple of cutouts without a bee-vac with no success. I made a bee-vac and have done 3 cut outs. One absconded, but they were a new colony that the people tried to kill. They were successful in killing the queen, as there was no brood in the hive. With no queen or brood they had no reason to stay, I guess. The other 2 are doing great! The one I did last weekend, I know I got the queen--I sucked her up when I saw her trying to bail out. The other I'm pretty sure I got her, as the hive is brimming with brood. After doing cut outs both ways, I wouldn't do a cut out without a vac.

Kelly