Frames per Super/Brood Box

[Tucker1]

 About a week ago, I complained about the lack of consistency in the thickness of the comb on my super frames. It made working with the electric knife a bit more difficult. Someone suggested that I reduce the number of frames in my supers to 9, thereby providing more space between frames.....resulting in taller comb. This would hopefully, reduce the dips in comb thickness on my frames.

This seems like a great idea. I'm assuming that I would just remove one frame and then space out the remaining frames evenly within the super. Is it that simple?

Would this same idea work in the brood boxes?  Would you ever want to do so?

It seems like the frames farthest from the center of the box are never used, especially the outmost surfaces of those specific frames. Is this something that can be fixed by manipulating the hive? It seems that even after rotating frames, the outmost frames are little used by the bees. What am I doing wrong?


Regards,
Tucker1

[Lone]

Hello Tucker,

You will get better responses from more experienced people and also you will probably arrange things differently there heading into Winter, but yes, the idea is to space the 9 frames evenly and then the comb can be built up proud and easier to uncap.  I liked to keep 10 frames, but a beek was helping me and took one out, so I didn't have a choice!  I don't think it would matter in the brood box, although you still might be pulling honey frames from there.

I don't know too much about arranging frames, but I can share a couple of principles that beek showed me, and things I've observed.  If you want comb built, then put the frames closer to the middle, and when complete, they can go on the outsides.  Do not put 2 stickies or plain foundations together or the bees won't keep warm.  Do not put more than 2 plain foundations in a super; it's too much for them.  You might put one plain at space 3 or 4, and one at 7, or alternate stickies and full honeycomb. When I had a weaker hive and a wax moth problem, I put the plain foundation on the outside because the wax moth mainly destroys comb, and the bees don't protect the outsides as much.  There are complicated ways of numbering and rotating frames, but it's too hard for me.  Basically you can put say 4 to 1, 6 to 9, move all the frames up and keep rotating like this from the centre to the outsides.  You might have a bee record book so you can keep track of it.

Lone

[Michael Bush]

>This seems like a great idea. I'm assuming that I would just remove one frame and then space out the remaining frames evenly within the super. Is it that simple?

Yes.

>Would this same idea work in the brood boxes?  Would you ever want to do so?

There are people who think that.  I'm not one of them.  In my experience you'll roll more bees with this arrangement (9 in a 10 frame box) because the surface of the comb will be very uneven due to the thickness of the brood being consistent while the thickness of honey storage varies. This means that brood frames spaced nine in a ten frame box have an uneven surface. That uneven surface is more likely to catch bees between two protruding parts and roll them than when they are even. It also takes more bees to cover and keep warm the same amount of brood when you have 9 frames instead of 10 or 11.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesframewidth.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#framespacing

[iddee]

I agree with Mike. 9 in the honey supers after it's drawn, 10 in the brood chamber.

10 in all boxes for foundation.

[heaflaw]

I use 8 fames in my honey supers that I extract.  I cannot imagine going back to 9 and definitely not 10.  My experience has been that 8 are filled out even further than 9 and if they are evenly spaced in the supers (after they have been drawn out originally as 9 or 10), they are easier & faster to uncap.  I am sure that I take more honey off when I uncap, but I let it drain for a few days & it is not a problem for me.

I use 9 in brood boxes and I have my method of removing frames that I think avoids rolling bees.  I always remove an end frame first(the queen is never on this) and remove others by first tilting the frames to the empty space.  Michael Bush definitely knows more than I do, so maybe I am wrong.  But, I have noticed that beekeepers each seem to have their individual way of doing things that works for them and is not necessarily a better or worse way than another beekeeper.

[doak]

The bees do not draw brood comb as deep as they will storage comb.
Try to keep it to 10 in the brood chamber. any way you want in the honey super, but I prefer 10 there also. Reason? If you don't get an even space you will have erratic, uneven comb. :)doak