Number of frames in a super - lots of questions

[jester7891]

I have questions about supers and the number of frames that go into them.  I have two hives each with two deep brood chambers.  Bees seem to be doing well at this time - I believe they have sufficient honey for the winter.  Last April, I decided to try one hive with nine frames instead of 10 (in the deep supers).  I found that I do not particularly like this frame set up as the bees seem to be messier and less uniform in building their hive.  There seems to be more cells all over the place and I have trouble getting the frames out.  I'm not particularly happy about having to scrape away their hard work.  I will try and correct this next spring when I can slip in another frame.  I need some guidance regarding the number of frames as one moves up/down through the supers.

Next spring, if I have nine frames in a brood chamber (deep super) and place a median (honey collecting) super above it, does it need to have nine frames also (or can it be 10)?  Conversely, can I have a 9 frame honey medium super above a brood chamber that has 10 frames?  And even to make my questions more complicated, can I have a deep super with 10 frames with a honey extracting medium above it with nine frames and then if by chance we have a really good spring, place another honey extracting medium above the first medium with 10 frames (10-9-10).  The question really is do the bees get confused if they are going from nine to 10 frames or 10 to 9 frames as they go up/down the hive?

If I understand correctly, the reason for nine frames instead of 10 is that the length of the cell will be longer and can be filled with more honey (to extract).  I'm wondering if this is faulty logic on my part.  Does nine frames with longer cells equal 10 frames with shorter cells in the long run?  I thought that nine frames would be easier to handle but next spring will be the start of my 3rd year so getting the 10 frames in/out seems to be not so difficult.  I did buy some nine frames spacers that make the extracting medium supers much easier to work with.  Also the frames are exactly spaced apart and are very uniform.  I would like to go back to 10 frames in the deeps and nine frames in the medium/honey extracting supers if that's OK.

Sorry for all of the "who's on first" type questions but the devil is in the details. 

Jester

[Kathyp]

the answer to all your questions is...yes.  but there might be a few buts.... :-D

9 frames in the brood chamber can lead to more burr comb.  you have already discovered that.  there is no harm in doing it, but i run 10 for just that reason.  9 frames in the honey super is fine.  lots of people do that.  if fat comb has no impact on how you will process your honey, go for it.

if you run 10 in one and 9 in another, you might find a little more burr comb between the top of the frames in one box, and the bottom of the next.  that's the only difference i have noticed when i have done this.


see....simple!

[D Coates]

Once drawn I will go to 9 frames in a 10 frame super.  9 undrawn frames in a super is trouble.  The only trouble I have with running 10 frame deeps and 9 frame supers is with powdered sugar dustings.  I used to end up pulling the supers off to do this.  Now I simply suspend any powdered sugar treatments while the supers are on there.  I still employ IPM with removal of a drone frame per hive once every 3 weeks.  It keeps those little nasties good and off balance.

[iddee]

>>>>I would like to go back to 10 frames in the deeps and nine frames in the medium/honey extracting supers if that's OK.<<<<

That is the VERY best way, when using drawn comb. When using foundation, always use 10 frames until it is drawn out.

[Michael Bush]

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfaqs.htm#framespacing

[charlotte]

Here's what I do...

ALWAYS use 10 frames in any set up until it is drawn...

Then- keep 10 frames in your brood box.  You are not gaining anything by downsizing here.  You will get less brood this way. Unless weight is a concern, keep them at 10.

In your supers, you can go to 9 or even 8.  Yes, the cells are drawn out farther, as a result of further spacing.  Just make sure you space them evenly, or you will have lots of burr comb.  Using spacers designed for this helps. Especially, if you are new at it.  You will most likely get just as much honey from a 9 frame box as a 10 frame box.  And it will be easier to uncap.  I like running 9 frames in the supers.

The bees will have no problems in regards to 8,9 or 10 frames.  Incorrect spacing, ie, bee space is where the issues come in.  Always have 10 frames until they are drawn & go from there. 

Happy Beekeeping!