what now?

Mairzy_doats · January 06, 2010, 02:50:36 PM

Both of my hives have died. I did a detailed inspection today since we are above the teens and its not to bad being outside for awhile. They collected no honey so I wound up having to do fall feeding and they packed that away into the comb. The cluster was about the size of a baseball, about 2 or 3 cells of brood scattered on each frame. There was pollen only a few cells to the right of the cluster that looked frozen in place. A bunch of the bees were head first into the cells. And to the left of them the frame was filled with uncapped syrup. So, did they starve? It doesn't look like it got wet in there but I did put dry sugar on top of the frames on a layer of newspaper and the newspaper was wet and the tops of the frames were, but it doesn't appear to have dripped down. I do have screened bottom boards so maybe a cold blast finished them off. I don't know. I guess I may never know. The frustration is overwhelming. I'm going to start all over again in the spring but what I'm wondering now is: Do I need to somehow clean the headfirst bees out of the cells before I reuse those frames for a new hive? Can I even reuse them not knowing what happened? And if so, how should I store everything to prevent something else from moving in, ie, wax moths or mice? I have 12 frames of uncapped sugar syrup (I'm presuming that is what it is; they sure as heck never made any honey); can I just freeze this and put it in the new hives I'm getting in the spring? Do I need to remove the brood?
Thanks for any help. I just wish they left a sign or note saying "hey moron, you need to <fill in the blank>....." That would make this alot easier than playing the guessing game.

mary

contactme_11 · January 06, 2010, 03:10:47 PM

It sounds like either to much moisture or more likely, starvation. You can reuse all the old stuff. Clean out the majority of dead bees, repaint if you want. Don't worry about the ones in the frames, the new bees will clean them out.

contactme_11 · January 06, 2010, 03:12:14 PM

Also you don't need to worry about wax moths or mites in a dead hive over winter. The freezing temps take care of that.

bassman1977 · January 06, 2010, 03:38:40 PM

I was told by some other beeks that heads in the comb means they starved. What may have happened (and this sounds like what happened to a hive (last year I think), is that there was such a prolonged period of cold, that the bees couldn't move around to another location in time before they starved. Had it warmed up for a day, they probably would have had a chance to make it.

adgjoan · January 06, 2010, 04:35:38 PM

gosh, Mary, I am sorry to hear about your bees. I did exactly the same as you did right down to the open SBB. Nothing to do now but plan on buying more bees in the spring.

Joan

bigbearomaha · January 06, 2010, 05:24:14 PM

Or, save the cost of pkg bees and see about hiving a swarm or two.

Big Bear

cam · January 06, 2010, 06:12:53 PM

And maybe next year close the SBB and put a small upper entrance in the hive for moisture control.

iddee · January 06, 2010, 06:47:46 PM

I'm going to be the odd man out here. I think a poor queen failed to produce enough bees to prepare for winter. A baseball size in Dec. or early Jan. isn't enough to produce the heat needed to survive. A 4 or 5 lb. colony in the fall may be that small by the end of March and make it, but not this early.

Mairzy_doats · January 06, 2010, 07:21:01 PM

Funny that you would mention that, Iddee. I was just going thru some older posts on here and have come to the same conclusion. She wasn't a very good layer all season. "Shotgun" would definitely describe her laying pattern. I probably should have requeened, but both of my hives were doing the same thing so I figured it was normal. Oddly enough, I lost both hives. :-\ of course starving probably didn't help them any either. :roll:

Now I just have to figure out what kind to replace em with. I'm not much of a gambler and this whole process is too much of a crapshoot for me.

~mary

David LaFerney · January 06, 2010, 11:29:42 PM

How did you start out last year?

doak · January 06, 2010, 11:58:19 PM

Sorry for your loss.
Check your brood pattern early in the spring and re queen if you have spotty brood. A cluster that size would not make it in the south with the weather we are having now. Volly Ball size is as small as I would want in the spring, If they did not increase by early summer I would re queen it.
I am down to 2 colonies but I will have bees come May if I have to buy packages or Nuc's.
doak

Scadsobees · January 07, 2010, 10:06:42 AM

Mary, I was thinking along the same lines as Iddee, size DOES matter. At least with bee clusters. :roll:

I'd say most of us know the feeling, I've been in your shoes, the disappointment made me want to light the whole lot on fire and be done. Twice. But things get better, more experience will allow you to recognize problems earlier (like last june :) ), and they'll be better next year.

On the bright side, now you have drawn comb and some stores for them, and the new bees will build up faster. So yes, reuse what you have. Just clean out the bees as best you can, the new occupants will get the rest. I don't know about freezing, in my climate I just leave them outside and let the freezing cold take care of the rest.

And if you do know an experienced beekeeper in the area, it might be a good idea to have them do a once-over on the hive just in case there was something else going on.

Mairzy_doats · January 13, 2010, 04:24:10 PM

Thanks for all of that good advice.

David, I started with two nucs that never seemed to build up at all. I had a friend beek look at them in Oct, and he said he'd be really surprised if they made it through the winter. Their numbers were small then and I guess that's all it took. In hindsight, I should have requeened as soon as I suspected she was no good. But in my quest to stay as natural as possible and let the bees do their thing, I wound up losing both hives probably because of my stupidity. It would be so much more helpful if foresight was 20/20 instead of hindsight. ;)

But hey, I've got drawn comb for next year so I should be all set. I ordered some bees from an apiary in TN, so we'll see what they do.

~mary

buzzbee · January 13, 2010, 08:06:14 PM

If you have a new colony,you may need to feed through the summer if there is a dearth.The queen will not lay large numbers of bees without adequate nutrition coming in. No flow,little brood.You need to get your numbers high going into fall.And you may want to get the feeding done earlier so it can be capped off by the time they need to cluster.
Hope it works out better for you next year!

Two Bees · January 14, 2010, 08:56:34 AM

Mary,

Sorry for your losses. It's good to hear that you're not giving up though. I know it can be frustrating and that there are few absolute answers to most beekeeping questions.

Good luck in 2010!

David LaFerney · January 14, 2010, 09:14:06 AM

Quote from: Mairzy_doats on January 13, 2010, 04:24:10 PM
Thanks for all of that good advice.

David, I started with two nucs that never seemed to build up at all. I had a friend beek look at them in Oct, and he said he'd be really surprised if they made it through the winter. Their numbers were small then and I guess that's all it took. In hindsight, I should have requeened as soon as I suspected she was no good. But in my quest to stay as natural as possible and let the bees do their thing, I wound up losing both hives probably because of my stupidity. It would be so much more helpful if foresight was 20/20 instead of hindsight. ;)

What apiary in TN?

But hey, I've got drawn comb for next year so I should be all set. I ordered some bees from an apiary in TN, so we'll see what they do.

~mary

Mairzy_doats · January 14, 2010, 04:58:10 PM

That would be Long Creek Apiaries. A friend of mine got Russians from them that he raves about. So I figured I'd give them a shot and booked a package. I just need to mail the check but I'm toying with ordering a package of Carniolans from them so I'm trying to decide. :? :-D

The guy who emailed me back was named David.....your not by any chance....?? That would be a really small world..hehe.

~mary

what now?

bigbearomaha