Bottom boxing :-D

jclark96 · February 22, 2010, 09:28:59 PM

Yeah, my one, one deep hive has made it through the winter pretty well. The nights are still pretty cold here 30s-40s. I want to split this hive. So, I want to give them more room as soon as possible to get them going. would it be better to put the empty box on bottom so they don't have to heat all of the empty space? Does it matter?

Wynoochee_newbee_guy · February 23, 2010, 01:29:40 AM

What? are you saying you have a hive with just one deep? is that correct? then if thats so what box are you talking about? I don't know how they do things were your from But i know some places in the south they only use one deep. but I would use two deeps. And in the spring swap the deeps so the girls have empty drawn comb to use they feel that they have room to grow and decrease the urge to swarm. now if If I am wrong please forgive because I asumed.

rdy-b · February 23, 2010, 01:45:23 AM

one thing to think about is that -IF they dont have swarm cells made -they are less likely to swarm(or to start making swarm cells) with empty comb Above them
versus below them -RDY-B

jclark96 · February 23, 2010, 07:25:46 AM

I suppose some more history is needed. I started this hive they built into two standard brood boxes. Then I had to move them, most of the comb collapsed, new foundationless combs. Then I fought SHB all summer. My plan was and is to winter in two boxes, but it didn't workout this year. I am going to check the hive today to see if the queen is laying yet. I doubt any swarm cells yet. So does putting an empty box under neath help them conserve heat better, or should I just wait until they are busting out of the top box?

Kathyp · February 23, 2010, 11:05:21 AM

the numbers tend to drop early in spring. i would not give them any more room until the queen is laying well and the numbers are coming up rapidly. giving them more room will not make them grow more quickly and may cause other problems.

when the time comes, i do prefer putting the second box under. bees usually build down and so putting the box below is more natural.

i don't' know what your temps are at this time of the year, but if you are concerned about conserving heat, it is to early to expand.

QuoteAnd in the spring swap the deeps so the girls have empty drawn comb to use they feel that

this is generally more disruptive than productive. there are several things you can do before that to get bees to move into another box..and i think you find putting your new box under will do the trick.

tillie · February 23, 2010, 11:38:15 AM

Quotemost of the comb collapsed, new foundationless combs

I'm curious about the comb "collapsing" - what does that mean? I've been using foundationless for a while and in Hotlanta have never had the comb collapse (which I interpret to mean fall off of the frame from the top bar). The only time the comb didn't do well was when I forgot about the foundationless part of it and held the frame at an angle to see if there were eggs.....then there was comb on the ground, bees everywhere and a red faced beekeeper :-P :-P :-P

so how did yours collapse?

Linda T in Atlanta

jclark96 · February 23, 2010, 06:55:37 PM

950 mile road trip tied to the back of my Jeep. :( Thanks for your replies. I checked on them today, they still have four frames of honey. They also cleaned up some syrup I left for them on SAT, and I gave them some pollen substitute since they didn't have any. They did have a small patch of eggs, so they might be starting back up.

Finski · February 23, 2010, 10:50:47 PM

Quote from: jclark96 on February 22, 2010, 09:28:59 PM
Yeah, my one, one deep hive has made it through the winter pretty well. The nights are still pretty cold here 30s-40s. I want to split this hive. So, I want to give them more room as soon as possible to get them going. would it be better to put the empty box on bottom so they don't have to heat all of the empty space? Does it matter?

I look yoor forecast. You have frost at night and by day it is under +10C warm.
Looks like April in Finland.

Yes, a new box under the brood box is good. It takes time before they can occupye it. Wintered bees die and new emerges.

Dont split the hive untill it has 4 boxes. Then bye a laying queen zand make a 3 frame nuc.

.

Finski · February 23, 2010, 10:55:53 PM

Quote from: Wynoochee_newbee_guy on February 23, 2010, 01:29:40 AM
What? are you saying .... But i know some places in the south they only use one deep. .... now if If I am wrong please forgive because I asumed.

It depends on colony size do it need one box, 2 box or half box.

If the hive has extra space, it just consumes winter food. Heat escapes and respiration condensates onto cold frames.

In autumn before winter feeding it is important to restrict the wintering room to proper tight.
Moisture and mould problems become often from too large space.

tillie · February 23, 2010, 11:53:07 PM

Finski!!!!! - great to see you back - I always appreciate your perspective.

Linda T in Atlanta