GOOD HIVE, BAD HIVE

FRAMEshift · July 01, 2010, 06:40:03 PM

Let's say I have two queens, both laying. I like the bees from the GOOD HIVE but I don't like those nasty bees from the BAD HIVE. I want to make some new queens from the GOOD HIVE and replace the queen in the BAD HIVE. If I pinch the queen from the BAD HIVE, can I just move a frame over from the GOOD HIVE with the queen along for the ride? Then the GOOD HIVE will make new queen cells and the BAD HIVE will have the good queen. How long do I have to wait after the pinch to move the frame over? Or do I have to box up the queen and let the BAD HIVE have time to accept her?

John Schwartz · July 01, 2010, 06:44:53 PM

Couple ways I'd think of:

Option 1: I would create nuc from the good hive with the good queen. 9 days later, I would pull queen cell from those available and pinch the bad queen in the other hive, adding the new cell about an hour later.

Option 2: I would buy/secure a queen and pinch undesired queen and replace with new.

The problem with just adding a frame of eggs/brood would be that there's no guarantee they'd make a queen from those eggs of the desired queen as opposed to the existing eggs from the undesired queen.

Course Bee · July 01, 2010, 08:11:34 PM

Since I just killed my good queen acouple weeks ago doing what you are proposing I feel obligated to chime in. I started a 5 frame nuc on Wed. and then on Sun. I took the frame that my good queen was on and added it to the nuc. I inspected it a week later and they had killed my good queen and there was a capped queen cell. I would suggest that you kill the bad queen and then approximately 6 days later add a frame of eggs and brood from the good hive. At that time make sure you check for queen cells and crush all of them.

Tim

John Schwartz · July 01, 2010, 08:13:30 PM

Quote from: Course Bee on July 01, 2010, 08:11:34 PM
Since I just killed my good queen acouple weeks ago doing what you are proposing I feel obligated to chime in. I started a 5 frame nuc on Wed. and then on Sun. I took the frame that my good queen was on and added it to the nuc. I inspected it a week later and they had killed my good queen and there was a capped queen cell. I would suggest that you kill the bad queen and then approximately 6 days later add a frame of eggs and brood from the good hive. At that time make sure you check for queen cells and crush all of them.

Tim

No need to wait six days -- they'll know they're queenless in an hour or so.

Kathyp · July 01, 2010, 09:09:34 PM

don't move the queen!!!

off the bad queen and requeen. i agree with LOB. this would be one rare instance when i would purchase a queen. if you want to requeen from your own stock you will have to wait until the larvae in the bad hive is to old to be used to make a queen and then add eggs. by the time you have done that, you will be 3 weeks or so with no queen. it's a little late in the year for that if you have a winter.

FRAMEshift · July 01, 2010, 11:09:49 PM

Quote from: kathyp on July 01, 2010, 09:09:34 PM
don't move the queen!!!

off the bad queen and requeen. i agree with LOB. this would be one rare instance when i would purchase a queen. if you want to requeen from your own stock you will have to wait until the larvae in the bad hive is to old to be used to make a queen and then add eggs. by the time you have done that, you will be 3 weeks or so with no queen. it's a little late in the year for that if you have a winter.

I agree that it's too late this year. I just wanted to know what my options were in such a situation. I can see that waiting for the bad eggs to age out, destroying queen cells and then adding brood would be the safest way to go to get the good queen genes.

iddee · July 01, 2010, 11:14:22 PM

Keep in mind, the bees don't read the rule book. A mean hive may become very docile with their queen's daughter. In reverse, a hive may become mean with a docile queen's daughter. You have the same chance of having a docile or mean hive, whichever queen the new one comes from.

FRAMEshift · July 02, 2010, 08:31:06 AM

Quote from: iddee on July 01, 2010, 11:14:22 PM
Keep in mind, the bees don't read the rule book. a mean hive may become very docile with their queen's daughter. In reverse, a hive may become mean with a docile queen's daughter. You have the same chance of having a docile or mean hive, whichever queen the new one comes from.

I suppose that the outcome depends in part on the drones the queen mates with. I guess you could have some mean bees (from eggs fertilized with mean drone sperm and ... in the same hive.... docile bees raised from eggs fertilized with docile drone sperm. Of course, if 90% of the bees are calm and 10% are vicious, you will mark that hive as mean. It's amazing that we ever have calm hives.

Or maybe docility is a sex-linked characteristic. In that case you might expect to be able to breed queens for docility.

Course Bee · July 02, 2010, 11:16:48 AM

The reason I suggested waiting six days is to remove any chance of them using the bad queen brood to replace her. If they have to use the eggs and larva from the good hive that would guarantee a change in the guard. I suppose you could off the queen and steal all the eggs and new brood to the other hive in trade for eggs and brood from the good queen. that would accomplish the same thing without having to wait or run the risk of them replacing from bad queen.

Hethen57 · July 02, 2010, 02:24:10 PM

Or you could do what I did with my bad hive....use them as an experiment for all of the unusual practices that you read on here, but don't want to try on your good hive :shock:...ie. chemical free, making queens, etc. My bad hive is thriving and has multiplied, so maybe it's not that bad :roll: The bees are kind of a pain to work, but you get used to it and maybe they will survive better. Just a thought...I'm sure there are hives that are so bad, that you just need to get rid of them, but if they are tolerable, but just more difficult, don't discount their potential survivability.