First foundationless question - drones & honey only?

Started by Hethen57, July 10, 2010, 12:50:40 AM

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Hethen57

July 10, 2010, 12:50:40 AM
I caught a nice little 4-5 pound swarm on June 22.  Since they looked like smaller bees, and I was low on foundation, I wanted to try foundationless.  They have readily drawn comb on their own (all large cell).  After about a week, I did an inspection and saw a nice little black queen, but no brood. Over the 4th (week 2), I inspected and they had drawn most of a deep worth of comb....all honey, pollen, and some isolated clumpings of capped and uncapped drones, and I couldn't find that little black queen.  So I was worried that maybe I lost my queen and added a frame of eggs and larvae from another hive so they could make a queen if they needed one.  Now I just checked (week 3) and all of those eggs and larva are capped, but there is no worker brood on any other frames...just lots of honey, pollen, and some clumps of drones.  Plus, I can't find the queen.  Am I queenless?

1.  Should I just add another box and hope that the reason there is no worker brood is because they drew all large comb (storage & drone)?

2. Or, should I just look carefully once more for the queen, and if none, do a newspaper combine with another swarm that I caught, making a double deep which I could start supering for honey?

Also, any other thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
-Mike

hardwood

#1
July 10, 2010, 01:02:47 AM
Often times if they are drawing foundationless comb during a flow they will tend to fill it with nectar as soon as it's partially drawn leaving the queen nowhere to lay. I would take a frame of fresh nectar and gently shake it out on the ground to possibly give her a little room. A frame of empty drawn wax would be ideal here. If you're feeding stop or they'll become even more honey bound.

You could take advantage of your flow with a combine too and maybe go into winter a little stronger just to split in the spring.

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Hethen57

#2
July 10, 2010, 01:27:07 AM
Is it possible that I still have a queen with no brood and only storage cells full of honey and pollen just because we are in a major flow? 

I'm not feeding (and haven't at all this season)...but they seem to be finding tons of nectar right now  :-D
-Mike

hardwood

#3
July 10, 2010, 01:38:26 AM
Without seeing I can only guess, but I have run across this several times. Without drawn comb and with a heavy flow they fill every cell with nectar and the queen shuts down. Look for her again and, if she's there, make sure she has room to lay.

What's the attitude of the colony? Are they gentle? Do you hear a noticeable hum that might indicate a queenless hive? If they aren't interested in raising a new queen then chances are good they already have one. Give her some room to lay and she'll ramp up again but it might take another week or so for her to really get busy. In the mean time you can use this to your advantage for honey production...you might not have the numbers needed to over winter by then though (something I don't really have to worry about too much).

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Hethen57

#4
July 10, 2010, 01:53:15 AM
They are as gentle as can be, with no queenless hum at all.  They should have no problem building up enough to overwinter if they get on track with brood production...I would just feel better if I found some brood, or my little black queen.  Would the patches of drone brood be evidence enough that I have a queen in there?...I'm just worried about the dreaded "laying worker" situation that I hear so much about...someone in there has layed some drone eggs over the past 3 weeks.  You are right about the flow though...they are filling the comb with nectar as they draw it.
-Mike

FRAMEshift

#5
July 10, 2010, 11:28:17 AM Last Edit: July 10, 2010, 11:52:26 AM by FRAMEshift
Sounds like you have a queen.  Just keep the brood core (or where the brood core should be) open by adding a foundationless frame.  If they fill it with honey, add another.
"You never can tell with bees."  --  Winnie-the-Pooh

Hethen57

#6
July 11, 2010, 02:30:40 AM
Thanks for the advice....found my queen :-D.  Lesson learned...all honey, pollen and drone cells doesn't necessarily mean no queen.  I think I may have seen some eggs at the bottom of some comb, I added another deep, and I put all the honey upstairs and broodcomb that I added downstairs, with empty frames as well, so hopefully they will get things going in the brood rearing department.
-Mike

hardwood

#7
July 11, 2010, 02:47:44 AM
Sounds like you've got it figured out...congrats!! Keep us posted on how it all works out for you.

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907
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