One hive is queenless and has laying workers. Please help!

[gardeningfireman]

Finally went through a hive I noticed seemed not to be thriving. Found very few stores, a lot of drones, and laying workers. No queen. I do have a young, queen-right colony started from a nuc that is in one deep right now. Should I combine them with the newspaper method, or will the laying workers kill the queen? If that is what I should do, does the queen-right colony go on the top or the bottom? All advice appreciated!! Thank you.

[Irwin]

This is what I would do. Take the queenless hive and dump it out and put the nuc in it's place they should work it out. I could be wrong.

[gardeningfireman]

I hadn't thought of that option, but if I do use the newspaper method combine, should I put the queen in a queen catcher for a couple days until the queenless hive gets used to her?

[iddee]

I would not use the newspaper method for a laying worker hive. Dump them 25 to 50 feet in front of where they are and place the nuc in its position.

[Hethen57]

Iddee: with the Nuc in the position of the old hive, what do you do with the bees that come back....isn't it too late in the season up in the Northern states to give them a new queen?  Do you do a newspaper combine with those?  (I need to deal with this same issue on two of my hives)

[FRAMEshift]

Iddee: with the Nuc in the position of the old hive, what do you do with the bees that come back....isn't it too late in the season up in the Northern states to give them a new queen?  Do you do a newspaper combine with those?  (I need to deal with this same issue on two of my hives)

The nuc has a queen.  They come back to the old position and find a new hive with a queen.  The laying workers will split up among other hives nearby.  Even if they all go to the nuc, the nuc frames are filled with brood pheromone and the scent of the queen, so they will shut down pretty fast.  Then later you can add back the frames from the old hive and you will have all the resources back together.

[iddee]

He explained it well. If you mean the foragers from the nuc you moved, they will find it or take up with other nearby hives.

[BjornBee]

Ok, look.....all the bees from one hive is going to end up in the other.

So why the shakeout and the bumrush at the door causing confusion and the guard bees to take up defence?

Just put the hive on top of the other queenright hive with newspaper. You can smoke them heavy or spray them all down with sugar syrup. By the time the clean up the sugar syrup, and they eat through the newspaper, they will be better off gradually blending together. I would find this somewhat better than dumping out the bees and instantly having the queenright colony being bombarded with thousands of bees coming in the front  door.

Giving the extra box on top and with some feeding, combined with the extra comb to lay, means a larger brood cycle the rest of September. Very important to have in September.

[Hethen57]

I tried it both ways, and I have to agree with BjornBee, the shakeout bees create alot of chaos with the bees trying to get into the other hives at this time of year.  I am trying a newspaper combine with my other queenless hive.  It must have had a laying worker in there, because there were some hatching drones, but not a ton.  I think at this point, the queenless hive is so weak that I don't think they would be much of a match for the hive that I combined them with, if they were to try to go after the queen.  I put them on my most agressive hive, so if they kill her I don't really care  :-D.  We'll see. 

[Kathyp]

the shake out is less risk and the chaos is momentary.  why take even a small risk with your queen, especially at this time of the year?

[cklspencer]

After helping someone else with this same problem over the last few weeks this is what I would try first.

Take off the covers on your queen right hive. Place some window screen on top (make sure it is metal and not the plastic or nylon kind) then place your laying worker hive on top with a top entrance. This will allow the bees to get out and do what they need to do and allow the Pheromones from the queen right hive to filter there way up into the laying worker hive and stop the laying worker. You won't be dumping a bunch of bees out to start a bunch of fighting either. Then after two weeks look though the laying worker hive. Make sure you have no eggs. If you have no eggs then continue with the newspaper combine. If you still have eggs look at see if it has at least decrease. If it has you can give it another week. If it has not decrease then shack them out away from the hive. Now the smells of both hives have been mixed so the bees that return will be let in with little fighting to the queen right hive. If you just shake them out with out doing it this way some bees will make it back to other hives but there will be lots of fighting and stress on your good hive.

[Hethen57]

How much laying worker activity enough to cause concern on a newspaper combine...just the existence of only hatching drones and no queen?  I didn't see any eggs, just some drones hatching and the hive has more drones than it should.  I like the screen idea and will probably use that method in the future.  The reason I'm willing to risk this hive is that it has a mediocre queen who produces offspring who are hot....I will re-queen in spring anyway...if the hive makes it through winter  :'(.

[gardeningfireman]

Did the shakeout method of combining the laying worker hive and the single-deep hive. Everything seems to have gone well. Lost my daughter's TBH though. It was a small colony and I was feeding them with an entrance feeder on the opposite side of the follower board (mistake). They got robbed out and ants moved in. The TBH colony fled for parts unknown.