Help PLEASE.....I don't know what's wrong

[chirokid]

Hi. I am a first year beekeeper. I need your help and advice.

Situation:
Two hives in Northern Ontario - Timmins area
Started as Nucs hived May 30, 2010.
June 26 hive check  - eggs and larvae in both. Installed 2nd hive body on each hive (8 new frames and 2 frames with drawn comb and some honey from last year - honey frames in centre of box).
Added queen excluder and honey super when 2nd hive body had 8-9 frames full of pollen/eggs/brood and some nectar.
Since then......NOTHING!! Have checked the hives many times and always the same. No activity in the honey super and the 2nd brood box is mostly capped honey.

Today I did a very thorough check of both hives into the top brood box - all capped honey. No eggs or larvae. On my second hive (named Lomond) I tried to get down to the 1st brood box but the bees went CRAZY and I put the 2nd brood box back, amid many stings (my first all year) and closed things up.
I took the queen excluders off but put the honey supers back on and replaced both covers. ( for both Loch and Lomond)
What have I done wrong? Have I somehow harmed my bees? Will they have enough food to overwinter? Have my queens deserted me? I feel that I am doing this all wrong and have hurt my little girls......please help!

[AllenF]

Bees sometimes will not build through an excluder if the super on top was not drawn out comb.   If your frames were new with or without foundation, then don't use the excluder.  The bees may still move some honey up to free up the bottom for brood, but it sounds like the bottom is honey bound.   I would leave the super on for a while and see what's going on without an excluder on.   

[bailey]

sounds like an excluder problem to me. you could try putting the honeybound brood box on top and put the super between boxes but your fall flow may be ending soon.
if it stays warm enough they may still work the super if it is below the honey bound brood box.
be sure to place the excluder in the proper place for it. ( in the storage shed! )
bailey

[mathew]

I agree its a excluder problem. You can also bring a frame or two of brood to the 2nd brood chamber. One open brood and one capped brood. Nurse bees will always get attracted to open brood. This will increase the activity of your 2nd chamber even with excluder on.

[tecumseh]

sounds like some folks are a bit premature to blame the excluder... hummm.

I know nothing of your flow which does define, no matter where your are, what should be happening inside those little white boxes.   I also don't know of your hives configuration or set up... it it totally traditional or do you have entrances at the top of the stack.

sounds to me like you have a honey plug above the brood nest and the weather may have begun to encourage 'the girls' to begin backfilling the brood nest.

proper configuration of the hive with an excluder could have likely eliminated this problem (problem only if you decide it is a problem).

[bailey]

there is a reason that they have the nick name " honey excluder ".
bees really dont like going through them, they will given no other choice but they dont like them.
as far as premature to blame the excluder we will leave that as a matter of opinion.

[Kathyp]

without being able to see the hive, and with the description we have been given, the excluder does seem like the most likely culprit.

i learned the hard way that you must let them start working the supers if they are foundation of foundationless before using the excluder.  then i discovered that they did great without one and don't use them anymore.  one more piece of stuff that i don't have to mess with!

[Grid]

The excluders have their uses.  I am migrating to mediums from deeps.  I moved the deep to the top of the stack, brushed all the bees off into the hive one frame at a time, put the excluder on, and then put the now empty deep back on.  I am hoping the queen is down in the mediums establishing a new brood nest, and that the bees moved up through the excluder to tend the brood in the deep, and that once those hatch out, I'll get a deep full of honey to harvest or give to a light hive.

This is my theory, anyhow.  I'll let you know if it worked after I inspect on Saturday.  I hope it works, since I did it to three hives...  :)

Grid

[chirokid]

Thank you all for your advice.
e

[Vibe]

The excluders have their uses.  I am migrating to mediums from deeps.  I moved the deep to the top of the stack, brushed all the bees off into the hive one frame at a time, put the excluder on, and then put the now empty deep back on.  I am hoping the queen is down in the mediums establishing a new brood nest, and that the bees moved up through the excluder to tend the brood in the deep, and that once those hatch out, I'll get a deep full of honey to harvest or give to a light hive.

This is my theory, anyhow.  I'll let you know if it worked after I inspect on Saturday.  I hope it works, since I did it to three hives...  :)

Grid

Just leave a top entrance to the top brood, as any drones will not be able to get through the excluder either. I forgot to do that when I tried what you are doing. It more or less worked, but I had lots of dead drones to sweep out.

[Scadsobees]

I agree with the honey excluder ideas....very very common beginner mistake.  I've talked to more beginners who do it because they're told to, the last one had a swarm 2 weeks ago because of it.

It sounds like they wouldn't go past it, and packed the top brood box full of honey.  The bottom brood box likely has a lot of honey as well, cutting in to the area they have for brood.

The upside is that they likely have enough stores for the winter, but with the dimished brood area they may not have enough population for the winter.

If they don't start on those supers (which I doubt they will at this time of year!) you could always try extracting a couple of the middle frames on the top brood box, just to open up some space.  If you don't have an extractor, then don't bother, it will just wreck the comb. 

They may have swarmed when you weren't looking, but either way, they should be ok, I wouldn't fret about it.  It really is too late to do much about it.

Rick

[chirokid]

Thanks Rick,
I do have 3 or 4 frames of drawn comb and could take out a few of the honey ones and replace them with the open comb. Does that sound like a good idea?
By the way, what does Honey bound really mean?

[AllenF]

You can switch the frames, open up the bottom a little.    Honey bound means there is all honey in the hive or in the brood area, with no room for the queen to lay eggs.

[chirokid]

Should I be replacing the comb in the upper brood box (which is all honey right now) or should I go into the bottom brood box to change the frames?

[AllenF]

Open up the bottom middle with drawn comb. Bees lay brood under honey.   They store honey over the brood.