Help. Major robbing in progress.

Started by L Daxon, October 14, 2010, 07:41:49 PM

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L Daxon

I got into my "baby" hive yesterday (a swarm I hived in early Sept.) and it was bone dry.  Pretty sure it had been robbed clean by my "mama" hive.
I have now cut the entrance down to 4  small holes on my mouse screen but that sure seems to make the entrance congested.  Should I cut the holes down to one and put a top feeder on along with a pollen patty?  Will that keep the field bees in the hive and make the entrance not so congested, while giving the guard bees less to guard, and thus hopefully be successful at keeping robbers at bay?

Or should I just feed the heck out of my mama hive (I already have a Boardman feeder on it) and then I "rob" the big hive and give some to the smaller hive as I am afraid the strong hive is going to keep robbing the small hive till winter sets in.  They are about 30 feet apart.

HELP.  Things have gone from bad to worse.  After I wrote the above, I cut the holes on the weak hive down to two and put a  1/2 pollen patty and a baggie feeder.  I went to the zoo for about 3 hours and when I got back a few minutes ago, WWIII was in progress outside my baby hive.  Dead bees all over the concrete in front (I had blown it clean 4 hours earlier.)  I am afraid the weak hive is going to abscond if the big hive keeps attacking it like this.  But the weak hive has no stores and will have to be fed if it is going to make it through the winter (getting less likely by the day.)
What to do?????   (I don't think combining the two hives would work cause the swarm came off the big hive because is was so congested w/3 medium brood chambers already on.)
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linda d

AllenF

Just how big of a swarm were they and how many bees are left?   If the holes are cut down so that only 1 bees can protect, that may help.   Then try feeding mama hive also.   Look into moving the nuc away from mama hive also. 

L Daxon

It was a fairly small swarm. I gave them some brood and honey when I hived them and right now there is enough bees/brood/pollen (virtually no honey)   to cover 5 of the 8 frames. (I have 3 frames of good capped honey I was holding back to put on them just before they huddled for the winter.)

I don't have a lot of options of where to move them.  I am on about .4 of an acre.  Right now they are up on my patio in the line of sight of the mama hive (30-40 ft as the crow flys) but I guess I could move them around to the other side of the house.  Not sure that would help much but I will try anything.  I guess I could cut down from 2 holes to one.

I wonder if the smell of the pollen patty and baggie feeder (has some honey b health in it)  is what is attracting the robbers as there is virtually no honey in the hive--I think it has all been robbed out.

The big hive is taking about a quart of 2:1 a day but it has been a little cool.  Last week when it was in 80s they were taking about 1/2 gallon a day.  Is supposed to be back in low to mid 80s next 4 days so I guess I could put my big top feeder on them, was really planning to do that anyway.

I don't mind babying the swarm through the winter.  I just have the two to mess with. But as I said, I am afraid they will abscond if they are under such constant assult.

Allen, thanks for getting back to me so fast.

Linda
linda d

tandemrx

I recently had bad robbing, only thing that really stopped it at one hive was to move the hive (I was able to move it about 500 feet away.

One thing that did help the immediate problem was to use the approach noted in Bee Keeping for Dummies and that was to take a bed sheet and wet it down, then cover the entire hive with the sheet down to the ground.

The bees still tried to get in, but could not. I left the sheet on for over 24 hours, wish I would have waited 48hrs as robbing evenually started up again until I moved it.

I think if I would have been able to put feeders on my other hives and kept the robbed hive covered I wouldn't have had to move the hive.


Here is a video of my post robbing sheet covered hives:

post robbing video


In the end, the robbed hive ended up being queenless (possibly killed during robbing?)

garys520

My first year in beekeeping I made the mistake of putting my wet suppers out in the bee yard to be cleaned, was that ever a mistake.  For a new beek it's really scary to see.

L Daxon

It is dark out now so I think I will take my baby hive and move it from my back porch to the front porch (fortunately I have big covered porches front and back.  If the robbers take in after the weak hive again tomorrow I will try covering it with a sheet.  I'm also going to put the big top feeder on the strong hive so maybe they won't feel the need to go rob as much.

How is one ever able to keep a weak hive anywhere near stronger hives this time of year?  By keeping the entrance down to just one hole?  Sure seems like that makes it hard on the foragers for the weak hive, slowing them up as they come and go.  But maybe that is preferable to getting robbed to death.
linda d

Tommyt

What if you Close the Strong Hive?
I'm New so I will say things way off Kilter,
But If your Strong Hive entrance is Restricted
would it Keep them in the Hive eating,
Maybe Nature is telling them You have Lots of
Groceries But with the Wide open Gate go
steal all you can, from the weak so they won't
Survive.If they can't Hit the smaller as fast
and with such big Numbers it may slow it enough
to be Protected
I know thats Opposite of what is usually Stated
But Maybe?

NewBee Thoughts

Tom
"Not everything found on the internet is accurate"
Abraham Lincoln

hardwood

Once robbing starts it can be very difficult to control. It's akin to a shark feeding frenzy! If you can't relocate the robbed hive far enough away you might not have much of a chance. Smoke the heck out of them during the commotion and wet sheet them if you can. The wet sheet conceals the entry points and cuts the food smell way down. This doesn't mean that the robbing won't start back up the next day.

Cut the entrance down on the weak hive to where only one bee may pass at a time and feed both hives (internal feeders only) or set up an open feed station far away from both to simulate a flow.

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

tandemrx

I agree with hardwood.  In my one bad experience it was really tough to stop the robbing.

And it was important to keep the sheet wet (not sopping wet, just enough to weight it down).

When I went back the next day the sheets were getting quite dry and starting to blow in the wind enough that entrances would be exposed . . . . then . . . . .

Somehow my full size hive that was being robbed eventually stopped being robbed (entrances had been down to 2 small tunnel holes big enough for 1 bee only and there was a bee traffic jam at these holes).

Still, I think if I had kept my sheet on this hive another day it would have slowed things down faster.  It was just bad timing as I was leaving on a trip and couldnt leave the sheets there.

My smaller hive probably never would have survived the robbing, entrances reduced, or sheets or whatever.  They just didn't have the population to defend themselves.  Sad.

Robbing is a nasty thing.

rdy-b

when we pull honey and robing starts-we pop all the lids in the bee yard (turn them over)
some of the worst robing i have seen stops -reason being is all the bees go back to there hive and stay to protect it
also you cant feed till you stop the robing-maybe take a frame of honey from the strong hive-give it to the weak hive
and close the entrance so just one bee can fit-duck tape around the seam at lid and boxes-the sryup has them in a frenzey
RDY-B

RayMarler

Stop feeding the weak hive.

Feed the strong hive.

Rob frames of stores from the strong hive and give to the weak hive.

Rob a frame of emerging brood from the strong hive and give to the weak hive.

Move the weak hive around the house as you said and screen them in for 24 - 36 hours (they have stores now)

Put a dummy hive in the weak hive's old location with a frame of nectar in it to fool the robbers to keep them from looking for where the free lunch went when  you moved the hive.  Once the frame you put there is gone (robbed out), they'll be more likely to give up robbing.  If you just move the hive without putting the dummy in place, they'll be more apt to go looking for where it went.

tecumseh

what ray said plus plan to (before the barn burns down) build robber screens for everything that looks weak and an easy target.
I am 'the panther that passes in the night'... tecumseh.

tandemrx

I love the dummy hive idea.

Have never heard of that before.  Brilliant!  :lol:

I have never understood robber screens.  During the robbing that occurred to me the bees were so aggressively trying to find any opening that I would think they would just follow any openings into the hive.

L Daxon

Well, I've done about all I can do to help the weak hive:
-moved it to the front porch (total opposite side of the yard where the strong hive is.)
-put a dummy hive w/one frame of honey in the previous location to fool the robbers (They have already found it.)
-reduced entrance to smallest hole in entrance reducer and sealed around all the joints w/tape to reduce the smell/attraction of the new frame of honey I gave the weak hive.  Also have a small baggie feeder and 1/2 pollen patty on so they will have something to work and can stay in side for a while.  (I'll take those off if robbing starts again.)
-have a wet towel draped over the hive which I plan to leave at least 24 hrs., maybe 48 depending on how things go.
-hosed off all around the new location to eliminate any spilled syrup and all the dead bees from the move (which was in the dark last night. Didn't go great.  Didn't get my jacket on well and bees got in and I got stung on the ear & neck a couple of times. Spilled syrup everywhere cause I put on a new screened bottom board--just had a piece of old plywood there before.) 
-will make some more syrup in a minute for the big top feeder which will go on the strong hive in hopes of further cutting down on their robbing impulse, at least for now.  Will probably take some honey (and brood) from them later to help bolster the weak hive, if they are still around in a week or two.  Supposed to be in the lower to mid- 80s the next few days but down to 70 following that.  Probably won't see any more 80 degree days after this week.

Regardless of whether the weak hives makes it, and I don't think its chances are that good, this has sure been a learning experience.  Thank all of you for your advice.  It was immensely helpful and educational.  This forum is such a fabulous resource.  I can't say that often enough.

Linda D.
linda d

Tommyt

Do you have anyone (where) you can take that hive
another Beek a relative that would let you keep the weak hive for a week or 2
Maybe the Mike Tyson Hive will chill out in time

Tom
"Not everything found on the internet is accurate"
Abraham Lincoln

annette

Don't use the honey b healthy. I remember Michael Bush saying it causes robbing. Just feed plain sugar syrup. And yes, bring the entrance down to the size of one bee.

Sorry to hear about this. I hope all this advice works out.

Annette

L Daxon

OK.  So I put the dummy box with 7 empty frames and one w/honey frame in the place where the weak hive used to be and of course the robbers were just buzzing around it all day today.  BUT, I checked on the dummy hive/frame tonight about 9 p.m. and it (mostly the now empty honey frame) was covered with hundreds of bees settled in for the night (temp probably about 60 or lower right now).  Do you think these are bees from the weak hive who went back to where they thought their hive was?  If so I would take the frame and shake it out where their new home is.  But if these are just robber bees who forgot to go home and are staying out late just chillin, I sure don't want to lead them to where the weak hive has been moved, even if it does have a sheet over it.  .  .  .   .   .    .Otherwise I think the girls on the front porch had a fairly quiet day today. 


Annette,
Interesting about the honey b healthy.  I'll quit using that this time of year.  Looked like there was even some robbing attempts at the strong hive today. It had hbh syrup on it.    Maybe the weak guys are trying to get even :-D
linda d

rdy-b

  the bees that are in the DUMY hive at night are the field force from the WEAK hive that you moved
If you are going to move your hives around to stop the problem--the only thing that will work is get rid of DUMY hive-and keep original locations -but switch the weak hive for the strong hive-the HBH is not helping-RDY-B

Tommyt

Quote from: ldaxon on October 16, 2010, 01:54:35 AMLooked like there was even some robbing attempts at the strong hive today. It had hbh syrup on it.    Maybe the weak guys are trying to get even :-D

Could it be that you have a Feral hive somewhere and they are the Robbers and not either of your Own
doing the Dirty

Tom
"Not everything found on the internet is accurate"
Abraham Lincoln

JP

When people suggest moving the robbed hive they mean to another bee yard several hundred yards away.

Just moving them to the other side of the yard accomplishes nothing as the robbers will find them.

I like the dummy hive idea.

Another thing one can do is to go into the weak hive at night and give them feed, then seal them up (properly ventilated of course) for a day or two.

Leave the dummy hive in place.

Let the bullies do their thing.

After a day or two, I like the idea of swapping hive locations or even doing some combining to bring up the numbers of the weaker hive.

Lastly, if the weak hive already lost their queen, morale will be wayyyy down and that hive could be a helpless cause unless requeened and strengthened.

Them bees sure can get feisty when in robbing mode, so make sure to wear protection around the frenzy if one is especially allergic to stings.


...JP

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