laying workers

drmwarden · June 16, 2005, 02:03:07 PM

Could someone explain a little about laying workers? I have been having problems with my new hive not being able to find the queen and not seeing a good brood pattern like in my established hive. The packabe was installed the end of April, so there must be something going on that there are still a good number of bees in it. Someone in my local beekeeping association suggested laying workers. Can workers lay fertile eggs? Will they produce worker and drones? If that's what's going on should I just write off this hive and try again next year? I have already been through two queens in addition to the original one, but they don't seem to be willing to accept a new queen.

Finsky · June 16, 2005, 02:19:03 PM

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Here is modern explaining.

http://www.shef.ac.uk/~taplab/flwrres.html
http://www.shef.ac.uk/~taplab/pdf/rwscience2005.pdf

Bees are now quite old. Have you possibity to get a swarm and you join it to hive?

Second is if you get a frame of brood from another beekeeper or two. It normalize hives life.

drmwarden · June 16, 2005, 03:04:04 PM

I put a couple of frames of capped brood on prior to intalling the last queen; still no success. That queen was marked, and I couldn't find her on inspection last weekend.

Finsky · June 16, 2005, 03:21:39 PM

Quote from: drmwardenI put a couple of frames of capped brood on prior to intalling the last queen; .

Do you have equeen cells in brood? They shoud build a few, if not, they have some tiny queen there, which cannot lay eggs.

drmwarden · June 16, 2005, 04:04:11 PM

There were a couple of small queen cells that I don't think were there before, but I asked about this once before; if there are no eggs and only brood in the frame, they can't raise a queen, can they?

bassman1977 · June 16, 2005, 04:06:46 PM

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think they only have 3 days to raise a queen once an egg is laid.

Finsky · June 16, 2005, 04:37:51 PM

Quote from: bassman1977Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think they only have 3 days to raise a queen once an egg is laid.

Egg stays 3 days as egg since it is laid . Then bees feed all larvas 3 first days with royal jelly. They have similar opportunity to develope to queen. That means 3 days.

Then bees try to make queen also from older eggs. Sometimes a queen is worker size and it is not able to mate but it acts like a queen.

Finsky · June 16, 2005, 04:44:50 PM

Quote from: drmwardenThere were a couple of small queen cells that I don't think were there before, but I asked about this once before; if there are no eggs and only brood in the frame, they can't raise a queen, can they?

You are right, they cannot. Are you able to cut piece of combs that they get eggs and tiny larvas. Just put it somewhere there in the middle..

Mostly there are some larvas and eggs in every brood frames even it is 99% capped.

drmwarden · June 16, 2005, 05:52:25 PM

But if they raise another queen and there's a small non-laying queen in there already, won't she kill the new queen when she emerges?

Michael Bush · June 16, 2005, 06:45:34 PM

>Could someone explain a little about laying workers?

Signs of laying workers (may see one or more of these:

o multiple eggs (three or more) in worker cells.
o multple eggs (three or more) on top of cells half filled with pollen.
o drone cappings on worker sized cells.
o eggs on the sides of the cells and not in the bottom (except maybe on drone sized cells)

>I have been having problems with my new hive not being able to find the queen and not seeing a good brood pattern like in my established hive.

Not a good brood pattern or NO worker brood whatsoever? With a laying worker you will see no worker brood whatsoever. Just drones and multiple eggs.

>The packabe was installed the end of April, so there must be something going on that there are still a good number of bees in it. Someone in my local beekeeping association suggested laying workers.

I wouldn't assume that unless you see multiple eggs. If you don't have multiple eggs, you don't have a laying worker. If you have worker brood, you don't have a laying worker.

>Can workers lay fertile eggs?

Rare if ever. Basically, for all practical purposes, no.

>Will they produce worker and drones?

No.

>If that's what's going on should I just write off this hive and try again next year?

How many bees are there? You can always combine them and do a split later if they are doing ok.

>I have already been through two queens in addition to the original one, but they don't seem to be willing to accept a new queen.

That's typical of laying workers.

You can always give them some eggs/brood and see what happens. Sometimes a laying worker hive will raise a queen from them and sometimes the laying workers will tear them back down. But it's one possible solution. If you have multiple eggs and not many bees, I'd just remove the equipment and shake them out in front of the other hives.