moving frames new hive

[tina]

My hive body is old so I am going to move the frames into a new horizontal hive. Please advise me  do I move the honey frames (top super) or the brood frames first   or doesn't it matter?

[BjornBee]

I'd just make sure the brood comb stays together in the middle area, and place the honey on the sides.

Keep as many of the frames in the same order as possible. This will keep the amount of "fixing" comb that does not always go together when you add comb in the manner you are suggesting.

So all your brood box should remain together, and the honey frames (5 on each side) should keep this to a minimum.

[tina]

thank you    should i put the brood frames in first   i hate agitating the bees 

[T Beek]

If transferring into a horizontal hive place your brood nest near the entry (I'm assuming entry is on one end and not in the middle :-\) and the honey toward the other/back side).  I have a long hive and so far its been the preferred natural placement by my bees, with little if any stored honey up front near entry, with broodnest and majority of honey in the back.  As they require brood expansion I just add another empty frame between them and honey, moving/taking honey away (this is when I get mine ;). as they need the space.

thomas

[tina]

by law we have to have frames in qld   so i'm moving from a vertical lang to horizontal lang (2 bodies without ends in the middle just like a TTBH)   usually the entrance is full width of the brood box (its year round hot and humid or warm and humid)  i'm not sure whether or not i will need a wide entrance in the middle for ventilation

[T Beek]

Ventilation is the ONLY issue I've had with horizontal hives and I haven't figured it out yet.  So far I'm thinking a separate (1x4) box with small holes screened over to prevent bee access but am really still in the thinking stage.

My Long Hive Holds 30 medium (lang) frames and has follower boards on each end.  My entrance is as you describe, just one end open (although I close up all but 2 inches for winter).

thomas

[FRAMEshift]

T Beek, what's the problem with ventilation in your long hive?  We use standard migratory covers that have a small vent slot to let out winter humidity.  Otherwise, the bees can ventilate pretty well just through the entrance holes.  Of course, we also have an open SBB year-round.

[tina]

the back bottom board of my hive has a rotten patch which i pulled off to stop SHB sitting in there   now the bees are using it as an exit but not an entrance???  Should i block it up or do they know what they're doing     the hive is very busy

[T Beek]

FRAMEshift;  Well, number 1 is that we don't have a screened bottom on our Long Hive, but according to many of the 'experts' around here (and other forums too) that shouldn't matter at all. 

"Trees don't have screened bottoms."  "Bees create their own ventilation."  Some beeks get real upset about this subject.  I Don't know how many times I've heard those two comments (and some even more obtuse) whenever the topic of hive ventilation comes up, despite beemasters as far back as at least 1877 discussing its importance.

How do 'you' protect bees from weather w/ a vent slot in migratory cover?  What's it look like?  Can you or have you already posted a pic?  I use a modified migratory cover as well, and for the life of me, I can't figure WHERE I'd put a hole in it, unless perhaps the sides.

Besides adding a 1x4 'vent' box placed between my inner cover and top cover (at least for Winter, which WE STILL have) I'm thinking of drilling a couple small holes on each end (screened over) which would be protected from any bad weather due to follower boards.

Frameshift; I think I've been led off topic, but any advise from you is always appreciated.  Despite there ease of use there are only a few who use Long Hives.

tina;  My bees (those in Langs) have both top and bottom entrances and right now they're using bottom for removing trash and dead bees and using the top primarily for pollen.  I don't think its uncommon for them to decide one is better for one purpose or another, especially when they've been presented with TWO choices :) 

That said; I think I'd get rid of that rotten bottom board, bees are awesome little critters, but their carpentry skills aren't so good :-D

thomas

[BjornBee]

 :lau:

Yeah, your right...trees don't provide bottom boards.  :roll:

But feral bees in trees don't have beekeepers expanding the cavity to accommodate 50,000 bees, which is almost nonexistant in the wild as cavity size limits this growth.

Bees also swarm, keeping populations in check during key times.

And the tree no doubt regulates heat with a thicker wood structure, making the sun a non-factor in trees. Far different that the 1 inch thick pine wood we use with an R-value of 1.

I think the whole "Bees don't do this or that" in feral colonies needs to be seen understanding that beekeepers are placing bees and managing the colonies, far different that what would happen in the wild.

If your going to manipulate colonies to grow much bigger than they normally would, suppress swarming, and keep bees in poorly constructed hives which add to the heat and stress of the bees, then it should also be realize that some extra steps might actually be beneficial to the bees. And sitting back managing bees in unnatural circumstances, while also claiming they don't have this or that in the wild, really misses the point.

[T Beek]

BjornBee; thanks to you again for your sometimes peculiar :) but always informative perspective and knack for presenting the 'big picture."  I'm being serious.

(based on some recent local chatter you should've received several completed petitions from our part of the country by now w/ more to come) 8-)

thomas

[BjornBee]

BjornBee; thanks to you again for your sometimes peculiar :) but always informative perspective and knack for presenting the 'big picture."  I'm being serious.

(based on some recent local chatter you should've received several completed petitions from our part of the country by now w/ more to come) 8-)

thomas

Thank you.
Although some would read what I write and always find a "rub", I do appreciate you for one that see my comments as what they are intended......and that is just trying to help.

I do have a number of petitions, and I'm sure your is included, sitting on my desk. I really appreciate the effort.

[tina]

the rotten bottom board will go as soon as my new hive arrives    actually the bottom board itself is tin it's the risers that are rotten wood and they have rusty nails (multitudinous) holding them to the bottom of the hive   i'm still not sure what will cause less upset, do i move the brood frames into the new hive first or the honey frames first or won't the bees care

[FRAMEshift]

And the tree no doubt regulates heat with a thicker wood structure, making the sun a non-factor in trees. Far different that the 1 inch thick pine wood we use with an R-value of 1.

This is exactly what I was going to say.  Bjorn beat me to it.   :-D  Ventilation is an issue because condensation drips on the bees but I think that's less of an issue inside a tree because of the insulation of the wood.  In a tree, the insulation is much greater above the bees than it is on the sides.  We mimic this by using top insulation but not side insulation in the winter.  It doesn't make the air in the hive warmer but it makes the sides colder than the top so any condensation occurs on the sides and runs down harmlessly.

[FRAMEshift]

How do 'you' protect bees from weather w/ a vent slot in migratory cover?  What's it look like?  Can you or have you already posted a pic?  I use a modified migratory cover as well, and for the life of me, I can't figure WHERE I'd put a hole in it, unless perhaps the sides.

I use the standard migratory covers from Brushy Mountain.  There is a slot routed into the top getting deeper as it approaches one of the sides where the wood strip drops down on the outside of the hive box.  Air going out the slot moves up an incline to the edge of the hive box and then must go down to get out.

I think this allows slight moisture venting flow without making a chimney effect, since the air must flow downward a little bit. For the same reason there is no rain or wind coming in the slot.   I've read this idea of the vent slot going down in several references and I think at one time it was a widespread standard.   The bees can squeeze through it but don't use it as an entrance generally.  We are careful to slide the cover to one side to close the vent when we are feeding sugar syrup in a Miller top feeder, since the bees could use it as an entrance to get to the sugar and drown.

[Brian D. Bray]

Due to the cut of the hand holds on a modern Langstroth hive the insulation depth of the wood should be cited as 1/4 inch as that is the depth of the wood at the thinist point.  Want 3/4 inch of insolation, leave out the hand holds and use cleats.