swarm prevention

[ronwhite3030]

My hive is a double deep and has about 16 frames of brood in it, yet they havent started bulding out the super I put on top of it, If I see them build queen cells and want to make a couple nucs with some frames, should I take the queen and put her in a nuc to simulate that she swarmed or should I make the nucs out of the queen cells and giving her more room will make her stay, I have read that once they prepare to swarm they will usually swarm anyways. so please let me know.

[AliciaH]

Ron, I hope others chime in a bunch here, because swarm prevention is very much on my mind, too.

My swarm prevention work this year revolves around when, and in what condition, the swarm cells and the old queen are found.  If there are swarm cells close to maturation and the queen has already quit laying in preparation for flight, I'm thinking the process will be more difficult to stop. 

But if there are only cups and the old queen is still laying, then that's the hint that they are heading in that direction with enough time to split.  At least, I hope it is.

I am no expert on any of this, so the research goes on.....

[BjornBee]

Ron,
Always remove the old queen and several frames from the original hive. This simulates a swarm, and you can lowere the chances of secondary swarms.

If you want to harvest queen cells and start additional nucs, this comes after removal of the old queen.

Here is a bit of information:

http://www.bjornapiaries.com/badbeekeeping.html

It should be noted that there is a difference between swarm prevention, and swarm control.

[AliciaH]

Bjorn:  I hope my post wasn't misinterpreted to mean that I recommend cutting out queen cells!  I'm sorry if it did!  And I've read your link before, it's one of the pieces to the puzzle that has me thinking about this stuff, so thank you!  Though I admit to being a bit unclear on the difference between "swarm control" and "swarm prevention".

I was just wondering that if the old queen had already quit laying, and the hive was primed to swarm, would splitting her and a few frames off to simulate a swarm be enough at that point?  Leaving the old hive with a swarm cell, would the original hive still try to swarm without a queen?  Would the old queen in the new box still want to swarm.  I'm just not clear on how strong the drive to "go" would be at that point.

Or would splitting when the cups first appear, leaving the old hive with eggs for an emergency supersedure, before the message to swarm really takes hold, work any better?  Keeping in mind that if the supersedure doesn't work, one could always recombine the hive.

All this assumes more supering and added space.

Ron, sorry if I've hijacked the thread a bit.  You just brought up a question that is up front in my mind right now.

[Finski]

.
You seems to have a good colony. 16 frames brood is really much.
That hive will need many supers when 16 combs emerge.

It is not time now to make swarm tricks or splits or nucs. Don't  panic if you have a good hive.

Reversing the brood boxes will make good to the hive. Bees move food stores and start to draw foundations. If there is no nectar  flow, they save and are not willing to make new combs. But they will occupye foundations and draw them.

- Reverse brood boxes
- give more foundations when they draw earlier
- add more space in proper time

[ronwhite3030]

no problem Alicia I am here to learn just as you are.

[rdy-b]

16 frames --check for two queens--RDY-B

[rdy-b]

Would the old queen in the new box still want to swarm.  I'm just not clear on how strong the drive to "go" would be at that point.

the queen dosent drive the colonies swarm instinct it is the bees them self's that determine the time of the swarm-RDY-B

[Finski]

Bjorn:  I hope my post wasn't misinterpreted to mean that I recommend cutting out queen cells!  I'm sorry if it did!  And I've read your link before, it's one of the pieces to the puzzle that has me thinking about this stuff, so thank you!  Though I admit to being a bit unclear on the difference between "swarm control" and "swarm prevention".

I was just wondering that if the old queen had already quit laying, and the hive was primed to swarm, would splitting her and a few frames off to simulate a swarm be enough at that point?  Leaving the old hive with a swarm cell, would the original hive still try to swarm without a queen?  Would the old queen in the new box still want to swarm.  I'm just not clear on how strong the drive to "go" would be at that point.

Or would splitting when the cups first appear, leaving the old hive with eggs for an emergency supersedure, before the message to swarm really takes hold, work any better?  Keeping in mind that if the supersedure doesn't work, one could always recombine the hive.

All this assumes more supering and added space.

Ron, sorry if I've hijacked the thread a bit.  You just brought up a question that is up front in my mind right now.

swarm prevention means that what must do that beehives natural instinct doest not arise.
Cups means nothing. The most important is to get a stock whwre breeding has supressed the instinct. There many ways to accelerate swarming. One is feed syrup in summer. One is to keep the colony in too tight hive.

Swarming cutting means that what do you do when you find queen milk in queen cells.

Google has plenty of good advices how to manage hives to avoid swarming.
It is a wide issue. I have not learned it during my 48 beekeeping years.

[AliciaH]

Google has plenty of good advices how to manage hives to avoid swarming.
It is a wide issue. I have not learned it during my 48 beekeeping years.

Thanks for the responses, Finski!  And, thanks for the chuckle, because you know what?  You saying that makes me feel better about the whole thing!

Good luck, Ron!