Frame arrangement - rearrangment questions

[ziffabeek]

Hello everybody!!

Boy, so many plans after coming home from Bud's and then BOOM! Real life hits you!  No time, no money! Aaagghh!  But we are slowly plugging away.  We are making plans for some nuc building and hopefully leasing some neighbor's land for more hives.  But in the meantime, I have some questions for you all!  :)

First of all "Hive Number One" or HNO is going gangbusters!  Right now I have 2 deeps and a medium (A) on this hive being used for brood and 2 mediums (B & C) on top.  It is the tallest hive we've had so far! And it is FULL of bees!

We put the first honey super  (medium box B) with just some starter strips on about 3 weeks ago and when we went in last Friday, it is chock full of perfectly straight white comb full of beautiful capped honey.  It is sooo pretty!  However, as we delved a little deeper, I got a little concerned. 

I had been hoping the queen would move down and start laying in the lower deeps only.  When we went deeper this weekend, we noticed there was still a bit of capped brood in the original medium (medium box A), capped brood and only a small bit of larva in the middle deep, and capped brood in the bottom deep.  I didn't see any eggs anywhere.   We didn't inspect every single frame, but we looked at most of them.   The thing is, I didn't see any empty cells anywhere!  In between the capped brood and all throughout the medium and deeps they had slugged nectar it looks like anywhere that was vacant. Usually I find at least a bit of clean empty cells, but like I said I saw NO empty cells and no eggs.

My thought was , oh boy , we've let them get too crowded.  But we didn't see any queen cells.  We saw a couple of queen cups.  But it doesn't really look like they are preparing to swarm.  There are A LOT of bees in this hive.  There are quite a few drones, but I don't know if I would say an over-abundance of them.  The brood looked mostly like worker except a small patch of drone brood in the medium (A).

What we did:  We removed the only fully capped frame of honey we could find in the deeps and put in an empty frame with a foundation starter strip in the middle of the bottom-most deep (we didn't have any drawn comb, having given it to the Mississippi Queen Hive).   We added another empty medium (medium box C) on top of the full one (B). This medium has some foundation and some empty frames. 

What I'm hoping:  The bees will move nectar up into the medium box C to make space for brood rearing in the deeps and will use the empty frame in the deep to give her more room as well.

What I'm wondering:
1.   Will they clear out the brood area if they have space above? Or will they leave nectar where it is and move brood up into the empty area.
2.   Will they cross over the full medium to rearrange or should I have put the empty underneath that?
3.   Is the sparse brood because of lack of room? Or is my wonderful, loving, precious, favorite queen failing? 
4.   How do you remove old frames for replacement?  Do you have to sacrifice either brood or nectar/honey?  I have heard people say move them to the outside and then replace when the brood hatches out, but how do you catch it before they start putting nectar and/or pollen back in? I mean, you are never going to get a completely empty frame, right? 
5.   I added a couple of foundationless frames to both hives, but forgot to put starter popsicle sticks in a couple of them.  Will this cause problems / be horrible? 

Thanks so much for your thoughts and ideas!

Love,

Ziffa.

Ps: The "Mississippi Queens Hive" or MQH is doing very well.  They have pulled out most of their brood frames and we added a medium to them as well.  They look small next to HNO, but I think that is just because of comparison,  I think they are building up well.  And Bud, you are right, they are a LITTLE more pissy, but only a little  :-P.

[iddee]

1. They will eat the nectar in the brood nest and replace it with brood. Also lay in the empties as bees emerge, after your new queen is mated.

2. I would put the full honey super on top.

3.Your wonderful, loving, precious, favorite queen is likely in a hollow tree or neighbor's house by now.

4. You remove the outer frames when full and capped, and harvest the honey.

5. Most likely will be cross combed.

[ziffabeek]

Ugh.  Really?  But there are soo many bees!  I thought you got left with nothing when they swarmed? I checked that super 2 weeks ago and they had only just started pulling it.  They packed out in just 2 weeks!!  I can't seem to balance checking them too much with not checking them enough.  Oh grrrrr. How did I miss the queen cells?  Oh double grrr.

Iddee, thanks for answering, even if it wasn't what I wanted to hear :(.  I'll switch those supers tonite. And add popsicle sticks.

Oh, bother.

love,
ziffa

[njoylife10]

If you place the empty frames in between two frames that are fully drawn out and straight.  They will most likely make them straight. But as always they can do whatever they want. :)

njoylife10

[bud1]

ziff, id plum rite; you dont have to go completly through a hive once it gets going but you need to pop the top at least every other week and once a week during a flow just peep in and see how much room left

[indypartridge]

4.   How do you remove old frames for replacement?   I have heard people say move them to the outside and then replace when the brood hatches out, but how do you catch it before they start putting nectar and/or pollen back in? I mean, you are never going to get a completely empty frame, right? 

In late summer-early fall I move frames that I'd like to replace to the outside. Then in early spring, when I do my first full inspection, the bee population is low and usually in the center, and the outer frames are empty.

Really?  But there are soo many bees!  I thought you got left with nothing when they swarmed?

Really. I had a colony swarm three times last year nd still produce an excellent honey crop.

[ziffabeek]

I feel so stupid!  After all the edumacation at bud's and I still let them swarm :(.  We talked about splitting it when we went in 3 weeks ago, but chickened out. We really wanted some honey and I was afraid we'd ruin our chances.  Shoulda, woulda, coulda.

I went in to fix the starter strips and move the full medium up last night and all the foundation we put in had fallen down.  I guess I didnt' really understand how those wedge frames worked.  HNO had already started pulling out most of the foundation all wonky cuz it was laying all up against each other.  MQH was just looking at it, like what the heck is this? Got most of it trimmed up, but it's going to be an interesting box, lol.  I could hardly believe how much the big hive had done in 3 days!!

Bud, thanks for that,  I guess that's what I need to understand, not a full inspection but it's ok to look once a week.  I was worried about disturbing them too much.  At this rate, I think we'll need to put another super on this weekend! I'm certainly going to check them more often. 

Thanks Indy, we have several really old frames with black comb that I'd like to try and replace.  I'll try to remember this in the fall and see if I can get them out.  Gardening and bees - teach you to think long term and have patience - neither of which have I historically been good at :D !

As full as they are do you think it would be a bad thing to try a split at this time? We seem to be having a good spring.  Thanks for all the advice and encouragement.

love,
ziffa

[FRAMEshift]

After all the edumacation at bud's and I still let them swarm :(.  

If bees didn't want to swarm, beekeeping would be a lot easier.  We had one hive come very close to swarming two weeks ago.  We had opened the broodnest and checked the hive frequently.  Suddenly, there were a dozen swarm cells and the bees were backfilling the broodnest.  All we could do to stop the swarm was a three-way split.  It worked but we now have two hives with no laying queen.... waiting for their virgin queens to mate.

we have several really old frames with black comb that I'd like to try and replace.  I'll try to remember this in the fall and see if I can get them out.  

If some of those frames have capped brood in them, move  them away from the brood nest (above the honey supers) and when they emerge you can pull the frames.

As full as they are do you think it would be a bad thing to try a split at this time? We seem to be having a good spring.  

There is a critical mass for optimal honey production.  I think it's because a certain number of bees are necessary to raise the 1500 eggs laid per day.  Once you meet that required number, the rest of the bees can become foragers and storage bees.... and REALLY boost honey production.  Splitting at this time of year will reduce total honey stored.  So I wouldn't do it unless that's the only way you can stop a swarm.

I would suggest splitting 3 weeks before the local dearth starts, which in Atlanta would be late June. If you can find your queen, do a false swarm with just a few frames.  That leaves all the foragers with no brood to worry about and they can just store honey.  And then your new hives will start coming on line just in time for the Fall flow. You might have to feed them but they will have time to build up winter stores.

[iddee]

If only stupid beeks have swarms, there are no smart beeks. We all have swarms.

If your hive did swarm and you have a new queen, let her lay for a week or two first. Then if you want to split, take her, two frames of open brood, and one frame of honey/pollen. Place in a 5 frame nuc with two frames of comb or foundation. Replace them with empty frames in the main hive. That will give you a nuc, cause a brood break, and release many house bees to forage. You should still make enough honey to harvest.