Feeding the fishes

[BlueBee]

Here's one of my late season splits I'm trying to baby before winter.  I'm experimenting with a different method of feeding my late season nucs this year.  The queens hatched from queen cells a little over a week ago, I have drones, and the queens are getting plumper every time I look, but no brood last time I checked (couple days ago).  This nuc has only 2 deep frames of bees, the other frames you see are plastic foundation.  Wax moths would destroy any comb not covered by bees at this time of year in my bee yard.     




So what is the smallest sized nucs people are going to try to winter this year?

[Michael Bush]

I've done a few five frame mediums, but I have much better luck with eight frame mediums and even better luck with two eight frame mediums.

[boca]

So what is the smallest sized nucs people are going to try to winter this year?

I have taken a very risk-seeking approach with experimenting overwintering nucs. I am prepared to loose them. The smallest one has eight quater dadant frames. (217 x 160 mm) (~ 3 mediums)
http://www.nicotplast.fr/ApiAnglais/Queenbreeding/half-frame.htm

I've done a few five frame mediums, but I have much better luck with eight frame mediums and even better luck with two eight frame mediums.

I don't know what is the borderline between nuc and normal hive, but the 2x8xmedium I call a normal wintering configuration not a nuc any more.

[Michael Bush]

Two 8 frame mediums is half the size I would typically winter.  Mine are typically between four and six eight frame mediums.  Two eight frame mediums is the same volume as one ten frame deep or a double story five frame deep nuc.  Michael Palmer overwinters double story deeps divided in half and calls them nucs as I would.  The typical configuration for a full size colony in my climate would be two ten frame deeps, or twice the volume of two eight frame mediums.

But my goal is typically to have them in one eight frame medium for the nucs.  The problem is the bees don't always go with my plan.  Sometimes they grow more and sometimes less.

[Finski]

.
A small colony has only  a value of the queen. Like Mickhael says, the colony must be quite big that it vital.

Small colonies loose so much bees in winter and in spring that they are not able to rear brood.

It is easier to start early nucs in summer.

Small colonies harm big colonies because a big colony needs every frame of brood but you donate part of them to the dwarfs. Not good.

[boca]

I'm not going to rob healthy colonies to subsidise the sick one. I'm not the welfare state government. If the nuc goes through the winter I'll have that as it is - a spare queen, always handy. Quality is often sacrificed by very early queen rearing, that's why so many queens sold with packages do not live long enough to celebrate it's first birthday. Having a spare overwintered and proven local queen is a real asset in spring.
Having weak colonies is a burden in honey production business, I understand that. But honey production is not my aim. I want to experiment and learn, perhaps to discover something  new. For that reason I prefer to have weak colonies/nucs. I can inspect them whenever I want without veil or smoke. It is not so enjoyable to manage strong producing hives.
But that is not profitable! Yes I know. It is my hobby (for now).

[BlueBee]

Interesting replies folks!

I'm hoping my small 2 frames (deeps) nucs brood up heavily before winter sets in so I go into winter with a 5 frame deep nuc covered in bees.  However as Michael, points out, the bees don't always co-operate with our wishes.  That was kind of the reason I was asking about the size of nucs people plan to winter.

Pollen stops here in about 45 days.  I'm not planning to steal from the rich to add to the nucs at this point.  It's kind of an experiment.  My feeding technique is also an experiment to deal with late season robbers from the big hives and an attempt to keep the wax moths under control. 

I would prefer not to add electric heat to these nucs because they're really not designed to accept my standard heater.  If I'm lucky enough to get the bee numbers up before winter, the nucs are heavily insulated and should stay cozy in their small volume without electric heat.

Bocco, I like your idea of overwintered fall queens for spring hives and nucs.  I have been thinking along the same lines and wondered how small of a colony could be used to get queens through the winter.  You'll have to keep us updated on your progress!