Carefull with patty feeding in fall

[Finski]

.
There many writings here to continue bee rearing with pollen or with substitute.

Lets discuss what we are really doing.

We had summer long to make our hives as big as possible. Why should we continue brood rearing even nature tells to bees that autumn is coming. Nature stops visible working and prepare itself  to winter rest.

Short of pollen is one information to bees that it is autumn and STOP BROOD REARING. if we feed protein to bees, it gives a false information what to do before winter.

Those bees which feed larvae, will be dead before winter cluster.
With pollen substitutes we get weak winter bees.



In Australia they arranged a research that is it able to keep colonies srtong over winter.
Their "winter" is really short. About one month and  temp 10 C. So with strong colonies they could catch a good yield from winter rape/canola.

The hives got so bas nosema that thy were in worse condition than unhandled colonies.l

i have on experiment how I reared 6 nucs fast with heating and with pollen patty.
Nucs  growed with unbelieved speed to one box colony. The whole box was full of brood.
What happened then was a catastrophe. The six colonies almost died during winter.
The need of pollen after emerging, the quality of patty or what, but since that I have not feeded patty in the fall.

[rbinhood]

Hey Finski, when you read your post and read it with a a Cajun drawl or southern accent all of your post make perfect sense....there is no need for any translation at all.  :-D

[hankdog1]

Your right in most cases Finski.  I'm probably just going to feed out some sugar syrup to top them off before winter.  I suspect that places like Texas may not have enough pollen due to drought conditions.  In which cause I would think open feeding pollen sub would be the best order as it can be taken up easier by the bees.  Here no shortage of pollen going into the fall so I will probably check to see where they are pollen wise in Feb. to figure out what they will need during the spring buildup.

[BlueBee]

Finski, great information as always.

You mention a catastrophe in your nucs because they ran out of pollen for the bees that emerged.  

How much pollen/protein do adult bees really need?  

Somebody else had suggested spiking syrup (their carbohydrates) with protein.  Could adult bee get needed protein from spiked syrup?

[hankdog1]

Pollen is only fed to the brood as protien.  Seems to me to be a waste or possibly harm adult bees if fed in syrup.  That is assuming they would take it up.

[Finski]

Hey Finski, when you read your post and read it with a a Cajun drawl or southern accent all of your post make perfect sense....there is no need for any translation at all.  :-D

jee jee . Most of these writings makes no sence. It is same what language you use.

Sama suomeksi. Se nyt on sama millä kielellä täällä kirjoittaa. Samaa soopaa.

[rail]

Pollen is only fed to the brood as protien.  Seems to me to be a waste or possibly harm adult bees if fed in syrup.  That is assuming they would take it up.

Pollen patties are made with sugar syrup?

[hankdog1]

yeah but they aren't diluted to the point your talking about.  Your just trying to get enough sugar in it to make it interesting. 

[caticind]

Kuitenkin kielimuuri vaikeuttaa jopa välittää hyviä ideoita tai korjata virhe. Sekaisin sanat tullut merkitä omia vastakohtia.

As seen here.  Hope the Google machine did ok.

[rbinhood]

Hey Finski, when you read your post and read it with a a Cajun drawl or southern accent all of your post make perfect sense....there is no need for any translation at all.  :-D

jee jee . Most of these writings makes no sence. It is same what language you use.

Sama suomeksi. Se nyt on sama millä kielellä täällä kirjoittaa. Samaa soopaa.

You are correct sir: :jawdrop:
The same in Finnish. It now has the same language in which to write here. The same nonsense. 
:piano:

[Finski]

Pollen is only fed to the brood as protien.  Seems to me to be a waste or possibly harm adult bees if fed in syrup.  That is assuming they would take it up.

Pollen patties are made with sugar syrup?

patty must have 50% sugar. Otherwise paty take mold.
Natural pollen in combs has 30% sugar=honey.

If you put fructose into patty it takes moisture from air and it keeps patty moist.

[Finski]

The same nonsense. 
:piano:

change your medication. Lets hope that it helps.

[BlueBee]

Finski, you mentioned a catastrophe one time feeding pollen to 6 nucs.

Do you winter any nucs in Finland now, or do you just winter your bees as full sized hives?

If you winter nucs, how many frames of bees do you try to brood before winter sets in?

[Scadsobees]

Pollen in the fall - do they use it or store it?

It seems that the bees pack away a lot more pollen in the fall anyway, in preparation for the early spring when nothing is available.  Is that true for pollen patties? 

Does the pollen limit brood rearing, or is it the honeyflow?  Or both?

It seems to me that you are saying in your experience that if they have an ample source of pollen but not necessarily nectar (provided they have ample stores) they will still initiate brood rearing?

[Finski]

Finski, you mentioned a catastrophe one time feeding pollen to 6 nucs.

Do you winter any nucs in Finland now, or do you just winter your bees as full sized hives?

If you winter nucs, how many frames of bees do you try to brood before winter sets in?

in Finland 5 frame nuc is minimum which goes over winter.  it means 5 brood frame in late summer.

I try to make whole box units. They build up easily in spring. With 5  frames it is painfull.

I have 20 normal hives and 15 mating nucs. Each mating nucs has now 3 frames bees.
I join matings nucs that I get one box uccupied or I join nucs to bigger hives. It is easier to join small ones because big hives kill easily 3 frames of next door bees.

Just now I am toggling in the car. i pick my hives from distant pastures to cottage yard. i devide some hives and then join mating  nucs to their queenless part. It is 10 miles to home here. This place gove about 200 kg to one hive which I bought here in May.  gasoline bills are huge with this system.

[Finski]

Pollen in the fall - do they use it or store it?

It seems that the bees pack away a lot more pollen in the fall anyway, in preparation for the early spring when nothing is available.  Is that true for pollen patties? 

Does the pollen limit brood rearing, or is it the honeyflow?  Or both?

It seems to me that you are saying in your experience that if they have an ample source of pollen but not necessarily nectar (provided they have ample stores) they will still initiate brood rearing?

Italians eate their pollen stores in fall. That iswhy their colonies are big.

Carniolan stores good pollen amount to spring and that iswhy they build up is fast in spring.

Our nature stop blooming in first half of August and nature has no pollen when hives rear their wintering bees.

Red clover field is only one which gives late pollen.  very few clover fields are in bloom in fall.