Dark streaks on front of hive

rober · September 20, 2011, 05:14:04 PM

i remember reading that dark streaks could be a sign of nosema. i was at the bee-yard today & there were some small darks brown blobs on the bottom board & on front of the hive. nothing on the other 4 hives. this is the only hive i have that does not have a screened bottom board. i'm also in the process of feeding fumigillin-b to this hive. they are on the 2nd gallon of treated syrup. could this be a side effect of the treatment? there were no similar symptoms before treating. also there were no symptoms when i treated the other 4 hives. tomorrow i'll open this hive & have a look. what should i look for?

Michael Bush · September 20, 2011, 11:19:14 PM

They are a sign of dysentery. But that is not necessarily Nosema. Field strip a bee (pull on its head and abdomen and pull it apart) and look at the the stomach and intestine. Is it white and opaque? Then it is probably Nosema. Is it yellowish or brown and translucent? Then it is probably not Nosema. If you have a microscope take a look at the contents of the stomach. You can compare it to images of nosema you can find with google on the net.

Hemlock · September 20, 2011, 11:54:00 PM

Nosema isn't a small problem. Meaning symptoms can be seen from across the yard in sever cases. A few blobs of bee waste doesn't mean much. You should see streaks fanning out from the entrance AND on the hive like someone sprayed half a bottle of mustard on the hive. Inside the hive you will see dark blobs all over the tops of frames and surrounding the hole in the Inner Cover.

Waste on hive ← picture link

Watse on frames ← picture link

hankdog1 · September 21, 2011, 01:17:30 AM

They probably have Nosema ceranae. Talking with an entmologist from Virginia Tech about it last spring. He said they did a sampling of hives throughout the state and found an infection rate of 70%. So pretty good chance they have it. He also said that Nosema apis was almost non existant during the sampling and that Nosema ceranae was more prevelant in strong colonies. Seems really odd but they seem to live with it without us ever knowing. The advice I would give is treat like your doing if it makes you feel better about the situation. Other then that your just gonna have to live knowing that your bees are probably infected and you probably won't ever see anything to suggest an infection. As Micheal Bush says you can look at the bees gut and tell if you have some form of Nosema won't tell you with one as actually testing the spores is a pretty expensive process. Good luck and I sure hope you can get them nursed back to health for winter.

rober · September 21, 2011, 03:53:51 AM

i'll check some guts tomorrow. it's just odd that this showed up while in the middle of treatment. they are 1/2 way thru the 2nd gallon of treated syrup. there were no streaks before i treated.

T Beek · September 21, 2011, 07:32:55 AM

Ahhh, with that bit of info I'd have to agree w/ MB. Dysentary is more likely than nosema, especially after feeding medicated syrup, but do the test to be sure.

thomas

hankdog1 · September 21, 2011, 07:53:38 AM

What are you feeding it with? HFCS is harder on the bees then sugar. That may explain it.

rober · September 21, 2011, 12:45:45 PM

1 rounded tspn fumigllin-b powder in 1 gallon 2:1 sugar syrup.

hankdog1 · September 21, 2011, 09:54:37 PM

Well that shouldn't be the issue then. I don't feed corn syrup but have heard that it can cause the droppings everywhere like your talking about from other beekeepers.

Michael Bush · September 21, 2011, 10:24:31 PM

You killed off the beneficial microbes in their gut with the treatment.

hankdog1 · September 21, 2011, 10:51:37 PM

Michael your probably right. When I was talking to Dr. Rick Fell about this very subject he said we do more damage to the bees with the chemicals we put in the hive then benefit we get from them. Hard to beleave that coming from a man that works for a state university. He said that we probably wouldn't even know if the hive has an infection because it tipically happened in strong colonies. As beekeepers most of us don't start looking for problems until we start to see numbers dropping. I know I'm guility of it myself just got too many irons in the fire and the bees seem to take a back seat to other stuff.

Shanevrr · September 21, 2011, 11:11:19 PM

ive been feeding with hfcs with no problems. just make sure its hfcs 55. brushy sells it by the truck loads

hankdog1 · September 22, 2011, 09:56:42 AM

Corn syrup is harder of the bees to process. Of course it's cheaper in most cases then sugar. Gotta sit down and weigh the benefits cost vs. impact to the colony. Not a choice for me since can't get corn syrup anywhere near here so it's a lot cheaper to buy sugar.

T Beek · September 22, 2011, 12:07:49 PM

Happy to say that HFCS is not getting any where near my colonies. Limiting or abandoning certain substances from our hives; Its just one thing beekeepers can control (what WE put inside), the majority is up to the bees.

Much has been written, both pro and con w/ HFCS fed to bees. So far the only pro I've seen consistently is the alleged 'cheap price' which doesn't include tax subsidies provided to commercial corn growers, who are increasingly using systemic pesticide 'treated' and GMO seed. Both provide volumes of scientific and anectodal downsides for bees (and humans).

Coming to stores next year direct from Monsanto; GMO Sweet Corn!! :? It may be us with dark streaks on the front of our hives then :-D

thomas

rober · September 22, 2011, 12:52:32 PM

the weather is hindering me from getting into the hive to do some gut checks.

dan rather on the hd.net network did a show the other night about the epa letting the chemical industry do their own studies on the effects of systemic pesticides on bee health. the bayer company did their test on a 1/2 acre plot & claimed it the bees were safe ( imagine that!). all opposing science is saying otherwise & it's now thought that systemic pesticides in particular are likely the leading cause of colony collapses. here's a link to a trailer
http://www.hd.net/blogs/bee-aware-september-20-2011/

T Beek · September 22, 2011, 01:55:10 PM

Yeah, Dan Rather has never been so good, now that he's been allowed real freedom. That was a great program with some new info.

And there's some who want to eliminate EPA (because they regulate too much :?), despite historical evidence proving their increasing friendliness to Big Money at the expense of life and limb.

How about forcing EPA to do their job instead?

thomas

rober · September 24, 2011, 01:09:24 AM

pulled a few bees apart & the guts look normal. i took a putty knife & lightly scraped the goo off of the hive & bottom board. when scraped the residue was actually amber & transparent. no residue is appearing now. hopefully it was a reaction to the fumigillin & it was temporary. 3 of my 5 hives are still quite heavy. i'm still feeding the other 2 a 2/1 sugar syrup. luckily i have an industrial source for cheap sugar.

Michael Bush · September 24, 2011, 01:41:22 AM

>amber & transparent

Sounds like propolis.

rober · September 24, 2011, 01:46:23 AM

that's better than poopilis eh? seriously though is it common for the bees to leave propolis splatters on the front of the hive & bottom board or is bee dysentary also amber when not stuck to the hive?

Michael Bush · September 24, 2011, 06:53:06 AM

Bee's dysentery is opaque and flat, not shiny and transparent.