Queenless Again!

[gardeningfireman]

I am at wit's end. I have one hive at a nearby farm that was doing well in mid-summer. I recently discovered it is now queenless and they are not doing much of anything. I planned on combining a single-deep hive with it as soon as I confirmed a laying queen in it (I had put a deep frame absolutely loaded with eggs in it about 3 to 4 weeks ago). As of today, that hive still does not have a laying queen. So, now I can't even combine those two hives. AND, to make things worse, I had a single-deep hive with a good laying queen and a queenless nuc. I combined them using the newspaper method. I left it like that for a week, then combined the frames and put on a second deep in place of the nuc box. I checked that hive today, and guess what? NO sign of the laying queen, and two queen cells! I am in NE Ohio, and am afraid it is now too late for a new queen to get mated. This situation leaves me with three fairly weak and queenless hives. I do have three strong hives, and a nuc at a trapout site. At this point what do I do? Should I try to buy a mated queen and combine all three weak hives? Should I combine a weak hive with each of the strong ones? HEEEEEEEEEEEEEELP!!

[Kathyp]

on the first, do you know that they made queen cells?  if you are 3 weeks rather than 4 out, you are still early.  that one i'd give one more week.  on the others, even if you can get a queen in there, you may be to late to build up winter bees.  i'd consider combining and then look to do splits in spring. 

also, what is the flow like or are you feeding?  how are the stores in the hives?  if you went through a dearth recently, the queens might have backed off laying.  feeding might get them going again.

[FRAMEshift]

When you added the frame of eggs, did the bees make queen cells?  Did the queen cells get capped?  Did the queen cells hatch?  It takes about a month from the day you added the frame of eggs till you would expect a laying queen.  Could be a week longer than that if the weather has been bad.

Where you are I would say the only thing to do is combine any hives that are queenless in the next few weeks.

[BlueBee]

I was surprised, I did find a few drones in my hives today, but very few.  Definitely too late for your new queen cells to hatch and then mate though.  Like Frameshift says, it typically takes about a month from the day you make a split until you see new eggs.  Give that first hive just a shade longer, there might still be a queen in there.   

You might still have time to salvage your hives if you can buy mated queens, but that seems very iffy to me at this late date.  As Finski says, it doesn't take long for a queen to lay a bunch of winter bees IFF the brood nest isn't backfilled and the bees have the resources to support new brood and they are warm enough.  Problem is you'll probably get a killing frost in about 25 days which means no more pollen to support winter (and spring) bees.

You're in a pickle.  A combine would be your highest probability of success at this late date.  Combine now, split in next spring/summer for more hives if you want them.

[gardeningfireman]

When I started the nucs and added the frames of eggs, they did make queen cells. The two weaker hives here at the house I am feeding. The one at the farm I was going to start feeding when I made the combine. Goldenrod nectar is flowing now-been smelling it around the beeyard for almost a week. The hive with the two queen cells in it now had a good laying queen a week ago when I made that combine. I think I will heed the advice and combine with the three strong hives. Thank you all for the advice.

[BlueBee]

That first hive might yet have a queen, but then again, the queen might have gotten eaten on a mating flight or didn't find its way home.  It happens. 

What do you think went amiss with the news paper combine that would cause the loss of your good queen?

[Michael Bush]

Most "queenless" hives are not queenless.  They usually have a queen who has shut down for the season, or a virgin that isn't laying yet, or a just mated queen who hasn't laid enough eggs for you to notice them yet.  Most of the time bees are successful at raising and mating a new queen.  I would be patient.  If you have a hive with some open brood and eggs, then shake it off and give it to the "queenless" one for insurance to keep them from going laying worker on you, and give it another week to see if that queen isn't already in there and mated but you haven't seen enough eggs yet.  There's plenty of time for a combine later.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beespanacea.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm

[gardeningfireman]

Good news! Michael, you were right! I did a thorough inspection of the three hives today. I saw a queen in two of them, and brood/eggs in the third. What a relief!  I am going to continue feeding these three hives to help them build up their stores. :-D