A question for the experts

[backyard warrior]

There is a article in this months bee culture about a gentleman who claims he is having good success overwintering bees here in pa by having a hive with two deeps and a medium.  He removes 4 frames from the middle deep and puts in four shallows in the top medium to create a pocket for the bees to cluster in the middle of the hive. My question is has anyone tried this and does it work ?? Does it allow enuff food for the bees to get through the winter. I know there is lots of variables cluster size type of bee how cold the winter is etc.   thanks for the input  Chris

[Kathyp]

makes some sense on the surface.  the cluster would not be divided by the frames BUT bees do not create a void in the hive for the purpose of clustering when in the wild.  they cluster comb and all...so, sounds like it might be more work and potential mess in spring, for not much gain.

[windfall]

I have been assuming that the bees cluster on the combs to raise the temperature of the stores "underfoot" to a level at which they can consume them....

But given that this was a "question for the experts"...I should really have kept my mouth shut :-D

[Kathyp]

But given that this was a "question for the experts"...

not sure there is such a thing.  only some with more experience.....

[BlueBee]

If bees are making heat in a cluster, they have to have fuel.  That fuel is honey.  If they're in a gap with no honey in the ball, once the fuel in their bellies are gone the bees are too.  Sounds like a dubious experiment to me, but I haven't tied it so I'm not an expert either. 

Sure bees will roost in balls in open frames in the summer and balls outside when bearding, but they don't have to remain there for weeks or months at a time. 

The other consequence I see from this would be the lack of brood thru most of the winter.  I suppose that could be argued as good or bad depending upon circumstances.

[danno]

Man I thought the "experts" would come out of the woodwork for this one.  Im not one of them.  One this that caught me very early in the article was the thing on mouse guards.  He stated that he lost a colony mid summer when a mouse  chewed through his enterance reducer and killed the colony.   What the heck kind of mice do they have in Penn?  
As for the missing frame idea.  I can see how this might be of alittle benefit in the the tree when the comb look more like bick spokes.  All combs are in reach from the hollow center but with frames this isn't the case.  I would think the bees would just end up clustering along one edge going up through the frames and the remainer on the opposit side would be even farther out of reach than normal

[BlueBee]

This does sound like a great question for our best winter wizard. 

I hope the Internet connection to Finland isn't down :(

[gardeningfireman]

I read the article too. I had a couple of empty frames in the top box of two of my hives. I replaced them with a couple of medium frames full of honey. I also had one with only nine frames in the top box. I moved them so the gap is in the middle of the box. It's worth a shot. We'll see come spring! Last year I lost both of my hives with plenty of food left, so for me it's worth trying.

[Shanevrr]

our state apiarist advised against it

[backyard warrior]

Yea i was thinking lack of brood and availabilty of reaching the stores but in the hollow trees they do leave the middle empty like a bike spoke so i dont know maybe its worth a shot. Id really like to hear what bjorn apairies has to say he is very knowledgable along with some of the other advanced keepers on here.  I just thought the article to be very interesting. Chris

[Michael Bush]

The guy is correct that the bees need somewhere to cluster and feeding heavily in the fall (which seems to be the norm) often backfills all of the brood nest leaving no where for the bees to cluster, but in a natural hive they cluster on empty combs, not empty space.  He probably has better luck than people who feed until every space is filled, and less luck than people who let the bees have some space...

[backyard warrior]

Mr. Bush thanks for the info that makes perfect sense to me if they dont have empty comb they cant cluster inside the empty comb i suppose its hard to make heat when the honey absorbs the cold air