HFCS Advantages and Disadvantages

Started by Shanevrr, October 31, 2011, 11:02:54 PM

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Shanevrr

Myself and some local bigger keepers are contemplating getting a tanker load of HFCS.  I hear things of storage and adding water.  Whats your advise, opinions, experience on this.  I know its popular in a lot of places

Ive been using it and selling it for about 3 months and I love it, so much less work and hassle,  but little do I know of keeping it and storing it for long periods.  Ive heard of using airerators or heating it if not kept at room temp.  I also hear that you should add 10% water to get it to 2.1. I have not done this and not had any problems.  Still not sure why this is recommended
www.Valleybeesupply.com
"A responsible beekeeper is a successful one"
Shane C.

rdy-b

 what type-????? % solids are we talking about-RDY-B

L Daxon

I bought a 5 gallon bucket of HFCS at our state bkeepers meeting last week.  Cheaper and easier to use than sugar, that's for sure.  But the guy selling it said I should still mix it 2 pts. HFCS to one part water.  That sounds more like 1:1 to me.  I like your idea of adding just 10% water this time of year.
linda d

T Beek

IMO All the advantages are for beeks (and of course corn producers) not bees.

thomas
"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Shanevrr

it will be the type 55

how does it affect bees, they take it like its there last meal lol
www.Valleybeesupply.com
"A responsible beekeeper is a successful one"
Shane C.

VolunteerK9

Quote from: T Beek on November 01, 2011, 07:26:03 AM
IMO All the advantages are for beeks (and of course corn producers) not bees.

thomas

Not what the corn commercial says..."Sugar is sugar" and we all know that there is 100% truth in advertising. Ive never used HFCS before for no other reason than I can get sugar real cheap-others swear by it, some swear at it.

rdy-b

Quote from: Shanevrr on November 01, 2011, 08:54:58 AM
it will be the type 55

how does it affect bees, they take it like its there last meal loll
if its true type 55 it is 75% solids- you can cut it -but not if you are going to sell it
run it through circulation with your pump from tank or tote back through for several cycles to keep it this winter--RDY-B

BlueBee

I was under the impression that HFCS 55's sugar profile most closely matched that of honey; whereas cane sugar is 100% sucrose.  So why would HFCS 55 not be good for the bees?

rdy-b

Quote from: BlueBee on November 01, 2011, 08:33:11 PM
I was under the impression that HFCS 55's sugar profile most closely matched that of honey; whereas cane sugar is 100% sucrose.  So why would HFCS 55 not be good for the bees?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19645504?ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

BlueBee

I should have expected the the issue was more complex than it appeared.  That's usually the case when dealing with honey bees. 

Learned something new tonight.

Thanks Rdy-B.

Shanevrr

as long as you keep HFCS around room temp you will not have that HMF problem, same will happen to honey if left in sun
www.Valleybeesupply.com
"A responsible beekeeper is a successful one"
Shane C.

rdy-b

Quote from: Shanevrr on November 02, 2011, 08:55:15 AM
as long as you keep HFCS around room temp you will not have that HMF problem, same will happen to honey if left in sun

yea yea its during the manufacture process that the problem occurs - most time these killer deals on a load
of syrup comes from a source that has been rejected for food grade because heat over exceeded limits and where do
they get rid of the load --BEE FEED--the problem is much less these days since awareness has been forefront -but two years ago there where big loses and they believe it came from HMF-- RDY-B

Shanevrr

HFCS is not heated during processing,  and you will always have hearsay and speculation.  Show me a study proving HMF killed honey bees and I will take it in consideration.  Unless you store HFCS improperly you should be fine.  Ive talked to several beeks and they have been using it for years with no issues.  But of course they know its temperature sensitive and you dont want to buy more than you can use in 6 months.  Regardless I might invest in a test kit just in case
www.Valleybeesupply.com
"A responsible beekeeper is a successful one"
Shane C.

rdy-b

Quote from: Shanevrr on November 02, 2011, 09:53:57 PM
HFCS is not heated during processing,  and you will always have hearsay and speculation.  Show me a study proving HMF killed honey bees and I will take it in consideration.  Unless you store HFCS improperly you should be fine.  Vie talked to several beeks and they have been using it for years with no issues.  But of course they know its temperature sensitive and you dont want to buy more than you can use in 6 months.  Regardless I might invest in a test kit just in case
then why dose it come almost hot when i buy it from the source-why dose tanker loads arrive across country still warm
why do they test for HMF if its a cold process--good-luck with that--RDY-B

Shanevrr

So you use it and buy it from source knowing its heated and knowing it can form HMF lol, now your criticizing it saying it kills bees.

Anyways are there any commercial beeks here that use it?
www.Valleybeesupply.com
"A responsible beekeeper is a successful one"
Shane C.

rdy-b

                            **now your criticizing it saying it kills bees**
I never said that --I said there can be problems with it-the point is there is more going on than
analyze of fructose- glucose or sucrose-and if you are buying loads- that are for some reason a exceptional deal
it is quite possible there is a problem with it-check your source
   
man you come up with slum-gum recovery and-crystalized honey deal-and cheap HFC--get a clue-- :lol: RDY-B

Shanevrr

WOW :roll: so now your criticizing members asking for advise on something there not familiar with. I would like opinions based off experiances of using it, not unpublished biased opinions. :stayontopic:
www.Valleybeesupply.com
"A responsible beekeeper is a successful one"
Shane C.

rdy-b

#17
**  Show me a study proving HMF killed honey bees and I will take it in consideration.**
http://www.jas.org.pl/jas_50_1_2006_1.pdf


http://ddr.nal.usda.gov/bitstream/10113/36128/1/IND44254804.pdf

idelines for Storage of High Fructose Corn Syrup

By D. Sammataro, B. LeBlanc, M. Weiss, J. Finley
Sponsored by PAm
July 2008

The Carl Hayden Bee Research Center in Tucson, AZ has been studying the use of high fructose corn syrup (HFCS) as a bee feed. We are offering preliminary recommendations on the storage of HFCS based on our investigations of contaminant formation and surveys of beekeepers' storage practices.  We received and tested samples of syrup both from manufacturers as well as from beekeepers that use HFCS in their beekeeping operations.  By means of a questionnaire, we obtained information on how beekeepers stored the syrup, how long it was in storage, what type of container was used and to what temperature ranges the storage tank was exposed.
Previous research has shown that the dehydration product, hydroxymethylfurfural (HMF), forms in fructose-based solutions that are exposed to heat, are acidic, have high levels of metal ions and have undergone long-term storage.  Honey and HFCS both have high percentages of fructose and therefore are both likely to form HMF under these conditions.  Early work by Jachimowicz (1975) found that HMF decreases the longevity of honey bees by 50% when present in concentrations greater than 125 ppm.  Furthermore, when water is added to solutions with high HMF content, the toxic rehydration products levulinic acid and formic acid are formed.
In our surveys we have found that beekeepers store HFCS in a variety of conditions.  These conditions range from outdoor exposed steel drums to indoor insulated containers.  Additionally, some beekeepers use HFCS immediately from the delivery truck, while others may store it for some time.  Further, many beekeepers dilute their syrup with water after storage, before feeding to bees.
Dr. LeBlanc performed experiments looking at HMF formation in various container types and under various temperature ranges.  The results of his work can be found in a report prepared for the National Honey Board.  In summary, Dr. LeBlanc found that the acidity, or pH, of the manufacturers' samples were all within pH 3 to 5 (acidic range on the pH scale), while the sucrose blended syrup was over pH 7 (neutral range on the pH scale).  Similar to honey, HFCS is acidic; if acidic liquids are stored in metal containers, metal ions can be released into the liquid and thus contaminate the syrup and encourage HMF formation.  Dr. LeBlanc also found that temperatures between 104° and 120°F increased theformation of HMF over time.  If the temperatures were over 120°F (49C), the formation of HMF more than doubled, to over 200ppm in 35 days.  The sucrose syrup sample subjected to the same temperature range did not form HMF.  When temperatures were raised over 150°F, HMF levels reached over 30,000ppm within the same time frame.
We have tested the levels of HMF in HFCS samples from both manufacturers and beekeepers; we found that both had some levels of HMF (See Figs. 1 and 2).  In general, most of the manufacturer's samples had less then 20ppm. From the beekeepers samples, we detected a range of 20 to over 120.  In general, beekeeper samples had more HMF than the manufacturers.
Depending on the type of container and the temperatures to which that storage container is exposed, HMF levels in your stored syrup could increase quickly.  It is best to have your storage tanks insulated and in a controlled environment.  In conclusion, do not allow the HFCS to overheat, and use it up quickly if it is stored in an exposed tank.

VolunteerK9

I can't find anywhere that will sell it in quantities smaller than a tanker load of it. Well, I found a place locally but it's .42 a pound. I can clean my kitchen of sugar spills cheaper than that. What is a tanker load? 50,000 lbs?

Shanevrr

Quote from: VolunteerK9 on November 03, 2011, 02:48:14 PM
I can't find anywhere that will sell it in quantities smaller than a tanker load of it. Well, I found a place locally but it's .42 a pound. I can clean my kitchen of sugar spills cheaper than that. What is a tanker load? 50,000 lbs?

Mann Lake sells 1/2 tanker loads or full ones.  Brushy only does full loads.  Half load is 2000 gallons, Full is 4000 gallons. You can normaly get it for from 3.20 to 3.60 a gallon if you get a half to full tanker load.  We sell it from our store for 24.95 for a 5 gallon bucket full including a new bucket.  Bring your own container and its 19.95.  55 gallon drum is 3.50 a gallon. 

Ive sold the crap out of it this summer,  and people love it.  Ive already pre sold 1000 gallons so far for my new order.  Sold 225 gallons last month.

50lbs of sugar makes about 7 gallons of 2.1=$30.00 to 34.00.
7 gallons of HFCS is around 22.00 to 28.00 no mixing, no heating (energy cost) and no mess

My advise is store it properly and dont keep it a long time and you will love it.
www.Valleybeesupply.com
"A responsible beekeeper is a successful one"
Shane C.