queen cell through winter

[shorty3]

i have a small nuc from a cutout did not get queen but they have made a queen cell. will the queen be a virgin queen throughout the winter because cold weather has set in and no more drones. or will they not finish the queen cell and let the hive die

[iddee]

The hive will die. If a queen doesn't mate in the first few weeks, she never will.

[Michael Bush]

You're in Arkansas.  There might still be a few drones and some warm weather left, but if she doesn't mate in the next three weeks or so, then when she does mate, she will start laying nothing but drones...

[cklspencer]

Early this year when we made our first splits I had one queen who never went on a mating flight. The brood comb went empty. No eggs, no brood, nothing. I let them go for a while to see just how long they would let her stay around and to see just how long it would take for her to start laying drones or for a laying worker to start. After two month there was nothing. The queen was still running around and the workers were still taking care of her. The nuc started with a large population of bees and after 3 months there were still a full 3 frames of bees trying to hang on. They were all nice and shinny, you could tell they were old. I gave in and replaced the queen to see if they were willing to try do the work to survie. It  has turned out to be one heck of a hive. I can't wait to see what they do come next spring. I chalked it up to one good project that I gained little information from but it was fun anyway.

I don't know much about your winter there in Arkansas but even if there are drones still flying it will be almost a month before that queen will start laying, that is if it is raised to hatch and mate. The beekeeper part of me says to combine and the research part of me says see what happens.

[FRAMEshift]

I had one queen who never went on a mating flight. The brood comb went empty. No eggs, no brood, nothing.

Yes, if a queen never mates, she will never lay (or maybe the eggs are immediately eaten).  I think that's due to the lack of an alternate sex allele from a drone.

If she mates too late, she will lay only drones.  I don't know  why that is.  I'd be interested if anyone who knows about this would comment.

[backyard warrior]

If you have other hives combine them if not order a mated queen see what happens

[Michael Bush]

>I don't know  why that is.

I've only seen speculation, but obviously there is something that changes around 21 to 28 days that she can't store that semen when she does mate.

[FRAMEshift]

>I don't know  why that is.
I've only seen speculation, but obviously there is something that changes around 21 to 28 days that she can't store that semen when she does mate.

So what's the difference between "never mated"  and "mated too late".  In either case there are no sperm available.

[rdy-b]

 you say a queen that never mated will not lay eggs- she will lay eggs in the same fashion that a worker bee becomes a laying worker--RDY-B

[Michael Bush]

In my experience, "never mated" never lays.  Mated late lays, but they are all drones.

[FRAMEshift]

In my experience, "never mated" never lays.  Mated late lays, but they are all drones.

Does "never lays" include the possibility that the queen is laying but the eggs are eaten quickly?  Or have you watched to see that she actually never lays?

I know that the queen marks her eggs with a pheromone that prevents the workers from eating them.  That's part of the policing of laying workers.  Perhaps that is switched on by the mating process.  Obviously there is room for some research here.

[rdy-b]

In my experience, "never mated" never lays.  Mated late lays, but they are all drones.

this year i got ALOT of bunk queens from the weather-- the queens that lay drones in worker cells (these are unmated i think  :? )
  seams to be diferant from the queen that mated and only lays eggs in drone brood (drone layer) and not worker brood--duno--RDY-B

[Scadsobees]

I had queens killed late in the fall.  The new queens hatched but weren't mated.

I knew this when I had bad overwintering, and the ones that survived were drone layers, and I found the old queen cells and rationalized it back.

Unmated queens can lay, but only drones. Your hive is almost guaranteed to be doomed.  I'd give those bees to a different hive.

Rick

[Michael Bush]

>Does "never lays" include the possibility that the queen is laying but the eggs are eaten quickly?

I haven't watched as closely as Huber (and his assistants) did (like every minute for days), but Huber was quite convinced they do not lay and that is consistent with my experience, because if they do mate late they do lay and there are eggs.

>Or have you watched to see that she actually never lays?

I don't have that much time, but Huber did.

[FRAMEshift]

I had queens killed late in the fall.  The new queens hatched but weren't mated.

I guess the question is, how do you know they weren't mated?  Maybe they mated late?

[Michael Bush]

When  they have crumpled or only one wing, it's a pretty good bet they have not mated.  If you clip them when they are not mated yet (only did that once) then they are not mated.