shouldn't we all be contacting our state legislature ??????????????

[backyard warrior]

  Hi all recentely i have read an article in ABJ about and illinois apairy going in front of their state legislature about beekeepers being allowed to extract, bottle and sell their honey without having an approved honey house.  I feel for a small scale beekeeper to stay a float and keep bees as a hobby this is a great option to help reduced the start up fees of thousands of dollars that isnt justifable for a smale scale operation.  Many people want local honey from their area and this state law in many states prevents that from  happening.  Isnt foreign imported honey more of a health issue then local honey.  Lets face it just because you have a certified honey house doesnt mean you are  conscious about contamination and sterilization of the work area.  I think we as hobbiest we need to address this nationwide and cut all the red tape the goverment has imposed on us small scale beekeepers.   Chris

[nietssemaj]

In Florida honey has been added to the existing cottage foods legislation. Small beekeepers are allowed to sell up to $15,000 annual worth of honey directly to the consumer. No wholesale, internet, consignment, mail order sales allowed.

[BlueBee]

Same thing in Michigan.  Maybe PA needs to get it's act together  :)

[BjornBee]

 Hi all recentely i have read an article in ABJ about and illinois apairy going in front of their state legislature about beekeepers being allowed to extract, bottle and sell their honey without having an approved honey house.  I feel for a small scale beekeeper to stay a float and keep bees as a hobby this is a great option to help reduced the start up fees of thousands of dollars that isnt justifable for a smale scale operation.     Chris

Absolutely not true.

Small scale beekeepers can either have an "approved kitchen" with certain requirements, forgoing almost all costs associated with the "thousands" of dollars you mention. This would be for those selling their own honey face to face.

For those selling honey commercially, yes most think you need a commercial honey house. But you can also use an existing facility by simply paying the same 35 dollar registration fee you would pay whether any other law is passed. Ever see the "bottled for" or bottled by" on a label? So the minimum amount you would pay is 35 dollars.

Many people want local honey from their area and this state law in many states prevents that from  happening.  

Give me one example of a small scale beekeeper ever being fined or jailed due to selling honey from a few hives. Never has it happened in Pennsylvania. 3,000 beekeeper already sell as much as they produce with no retribution against them.

Many people want local honey from their area and this state law in many states prevents that from  happening.  Isn't foreign imported honey more of a health issue then local honey.     Chris

Yes it is. However nobody really looks at locally produced honey the same as imported honey. And if they did, I think it would not be good for the local beekeepers.

But we have a three year effort going on right now for honey standards. That is where the effort, money , and resources are being spent. Got to shore up that standard to make sure those gettin paid off can get the most they can. Always follow the money!

Lets face it just because you have a certified honey house doesn't mean you are  conscious about contamination and sterilization of the work area.     Chris

True. But does that same truth about slaughter houses, milk operation, and food establishments justify them on the same basis?

I think we as hobbiest we need to address this nationwide and cut all the red tape the goverment has imposed on us small scale beekeepers.   Chris

Good one! A bunch of hobbyist doing what? Writing letters? Praying? Complaining? You really think this is how this works? Illinois had a concerted effort on many levels. It takes time, commitment, money, contacts, and resources.

This was brought up at the Pa. state meeting this past fall. The discussion ended by saying it would take a new set of legislation, costs for attorneys, and more effort than anyone in the room was willing to offer. That could be in part to those pulling the strings at the state association not being concerned about hobbyists to begin with.

You see, most of the income generated by the beekeepers in this state, goes towards the honey queen program. We pay somewhere between (total costs are not known by me as higher powers hold them with their lives it seems) 20,000 and 50,000 dollars in total operating costs so a queen can run around promoting honey, handing out fliers promoting the honey board and the honey locator, and representing the larger producers and packers of the state.

Perhap you should read a recent article in Bee Culture, entitled "Everything Changes", December 2010, page 31, Dr. James E. Tew states "Over time, I sense that increasingly our industry has subdivided itself into three groups: Academic beekeeping, hobby beekeeping, and commercial beekeeping. Each of these groups has their own agendas and goals and is semi-autonomous".

The powers that be, and those connected at the state level, whether that be the agriculture department, state association, university folks...all are part of the problem, and all looking for their best interests. Sadly, that means such items as great legislature seen in Illinois will probably never be seen in this state.

One last thing I always ask those making suggestions like this. What are you willing to do? Where were you at the board meeting last fall? Are you part of the bee industry in Pennsylvania beyond keeping bees? Certainly the changes you would like to see, will not come about on their own. You see, it takes people standing up and making things happen. Far too many complain, then do nothing beyond that.

[AliciaH]

Washington State (at least, King County) allows beekeepers to follow the same rules as small farms.  As long as the products we sell are "organic" from the hive (meaning the bees made it, we didn't), we don't need special facilities to bottle or sell.

If we add anything to the honey, like flavorings, then the honey isn't "organic" anymore and supposedly we then do need a certified facility.  At least, that's my understanding after talking to the Dept. of Ag.

Actually, I don't think my kitchen is ever cleaner than just prior to extracting and bottling!  :)

[backyard warrior]

Lots of good info thanks much Mike. I just see too much gov in eveything anymore just let the people live like they did many years ago they seemed to be happy without all the red tape.  Im still learning alot about the bees and how to properly manage them let alone the political  part of beekeeping which is the important part as well is a new adventure and i know that you Mike have been down this road in lots of ways so you have the experience and i do appreciate all the time you put into the bees and the rights of the beekeepers.  Chris

[BjornBee]

Lots of good info thanks much Mike. I just see too much gov in eveything anymore just let the people live like they did many years ago they seemed to be happy without all the red tape.  Im still learning alot about the bees and how to properly manage them let alone the political  part of beekeeping which is the important part as well is a new adventure and i know that you Mike have been down this road in lots of ways so you have the experience and i do appreciate all the time you put into the bees and the rights of the beekeepers.  Chris

Thank you Chris.

I could use a lot less government also. It's just with the politics of everything and anything, nothing gets done without the almighty dollar or for the benefit of somebody along the way. It's no secret I walked away in many ways from trying to work on things such as this, and just got tired of bangin my head against the wall from fighting the system, egos, agendas, etc. And that was just from the beekeepers.  ;)

Keep up the passion. It takes many voices to get small steps in the right direction.

I can't mention here, but there are reasons and goals of placing hives at the Governors residence. Stay tuned for a video this coming summer that may make you smile a bit on this particular subject.  ;)

[Rich V]

Give me one example of a small scale beekeeper ever being fined or jailed due to selling honey from a few hives. Never has it happened in Pennsylvania. 3,000 beekeeper already sell as much as they produce with no retribution against them.

I can not give any example of a beekeeper being fined or jailed, but no beekeeper regardless of size could sell any amount of honey from a public stand or farmers market without first showing a copy of the inspection report given by the state from the location where the honey was extracted. Also if a customer came to us and asked us to refill their bottles, we were not allowed to do so.

Sorry, the statement above mine asking for an example is a quote from BjornBee, 1/4/12




















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[backyard warrior]

up in this part of the state if a state inspector would go to a store and you dont have a  registered ag number on the jars they would make the bekeeper remove the product.

[backyard warrior]

Hey Mike really liked the mike palmer video and i see he is part of the northern breeders. I liked what he had to say and how the nucs are a big part of the process of sustainability. I rememeber you saying that last year it was challenging that not so many nucs did well do to lack of stores being it was a cold winter last year.  But i am going down that path to sustainablity Chris is done with southern packages not so much luck with them come spring all would be dead.  Now they are claming spraying the frames in fall and spring with a nozevit fumigilin B mixture and seems to clear up any sluggish hives within 3 weeks after treatment. Its amazing how much looking around you have to do as a beekeeper getting started to find out what works and what doesnt.  Unfortuntely i dont know if all new beekeepers will be able to keep their head in the game of keeping bees if they dont understand the process of sustainablity not everyone is entertaining the fact of buying bees every spring including myself.  I need a bee fix every winter just a look into the hives to see some bees, unfortunately not eveyone that starts is this entertained by bees and i feel if they see its a challege to keep them little guys alive and the cost of being in this hobby, many will pack it in and that isnt really what we as a society want for bees that need all the help they can get.     Chris

[BjornBee]

up in this part of the state if a state inspector would go to a store and you dont have a  registered ag number on the jars they would make the bekeeper remove the product.

Chris,
What are you mentioning.

I am registered and licensed to pack from my operation. I have no registered ag number. I've never heard of a number.  :?

[BjornBee]

We can bash packages all day long. And I do my fair share. But reality is that if not for packages, most beginners would never get bees ever year. Way too few beekeeper supplying nucs and raising local queens. More needs to be as motivated as you. Glad you are making a difference.

Once established, no beekeeper should rely on packages every year to make up losses. But instead, they should raise their own queens and do splits.

And if one does buy a package, I suggest requeening the package queen as soon as you can.

Yes, Mike Palmer has joined NSQBA. We are very fortunate to have him as a member. He bring years of experience to the table. And I am sure we will all benefit from his guidance and input. 

[rober]

while missouri does not have any laws like those in illinois for honey they do have them for raw milk. in order to buy raw milk you have to go to the source ( dairy ). they cannot bring it to you. back in the 70's i had dairy goats. i was extremely careful & sanitary in every regard from milking to bottling. i did however have a health food store selling my milk. the way we circumvented the law was via my label which stated that the milk was not fit for human consumption. with that statement the state could not restrict the sale. the buyers understood why the label said what it did & were happy not to have to drive 65 miles to my house & bought the milk anyway. just like honey the health benefits of goats milk are destroyed when over-heated.

[backyard warrior]

yes up here in carbon county a fellow bekeeper had to remove his honey from a farm store for the fact he wasnt registered with the state to process honey.  I dont know why but you have to register with the state and get an inspection of the facility where you will be doing the extracting and also a sewage and water test before you can sell honey.  Chris

[BjornBee]

yes up here in carbon county a fellow bekeeper had to remove his honey from a farm store for the fact he wasnt registered with the state to process honey.  I dont know why but you have to register with the state and get an inspection of the facility where you will be doing the extracting and also a sewage and water test before you can sell honey.  Chris

Yes, that probably happened.

You can.....

Get an "approved kitchen" license which allows you to sell yourself at your own farm stand in front of your farm, at the flea market or anywhere else where YOU are selling the product. It costs 35 dollars. You can sell thousands of bottles every week, while claiming to be a hobbyist! ;)

Once the product leaves your control and you start selling at third party places, the state considers this a commercial enterprise. This requires you use an approved food processing facility, which has many requirements.

The problem is that most beekeepers want to sell honey at commercial stores from the standpoint they are nothing more than hobbyists, with no reportable income, and it seems everyone has but one or two hives in the backyard. And we all know that with two hives, how many markets can you expect to keep the shelves filled year round?

So we have beekeepers with 50-100 hives, trying to sell honey year round from multiple locations, while claiming to be nothing more than hobbyists.

You can sell your own honey with little fanfare from the state. You can get a "kitchen" license. You can be registered and use another facility to pack any amount of honey. Or you can register you own honey house.

Beekeepers are great at calling themselves "hobbyists". The line in the sand between hobbyist and commercial for the state is the difference between you selling your product, and you selling at third party establishments.

I'm not agreeing or supporting the system we have in place. I would like to see it all go away. but as long as we have a system in place, we should at least know what we have to work with.

And to be clear....there is NO Ag number placed on labels.

And every state inspector I know, and I know most of them, do NOT go looking for products to pull off the shelf. Honey is the least of their concerns. but they will act on complaints filed concerning products being sold. And do you know who makes those phone calls? Bigger packers and commercial guys. And that my friend is why I do not, and will not support honey standards and other restrictions that hobbyists beekeepers are trying to pass in this state. Cause they will all come back to bite the smaller guy in the butt! And once the standard is passed, in little increments, testing, quality testing, and other red tape crap will shove the smaller guys out.

[Vance G]

AMEN AMEN!  Whic means Yeah verily it is so!!!   WOOP WOOP YAAAY------ BJORN!!   

[backyard warrior]

I totally agree with what you are saying we need beekeepers and doing that will eliminate the little guy and uncle same loves big business as we all know heavens forbid the little guy has a little extra in his pocket :)