Varroa and Swarm Management help, please!

[c10250]

I'm a Northern Illinois beek. I have a hive of carnis that went into winter at 140 lbs (double deep).  I have no doubt this hive will swarm next year if it makes it through the winter.

After ready Randy Oliver's varroa management article and am very interested in doing a split for varroa control and to prevent swarming.  HOWEVER, I really would like a strong hive for my black-locust flow.  Last year my hive gained over 40 lbs off black locust.  I would be willing to split AFTER the black locust flow, but would that be too late?  Once their minds are made up, will a split prevent the swarm?

Here's my thinking on timing:

Black locust flow in N. IL over by June 8th.
Summer flow begins around June 18th.
Around June 10th, but a queen excluder between brood boxes.
Around June 15th, look for eggs, split, and add a new queen to queenless box.  tear down swarm cells.
I have the opportunity to move one of the boxes either 2 blocks, or 10 miles.

Can someone please provide any wisdom on this subject?  Thanks. 

1. Can a June split prevent swarming, even after swarm cells are observed.
2. Would June split be worth it for Varroa


Oh, and by the way, here's my flow data from last year:

[Finski]

.
Have you tried oxalic acid trickling? If not, do it now quickly. You have nothing to loose.
When you trickle you see how much you get mites.

The the hive start to make queen cells, make a false swarm on fiundations. tearing queen cells does not help.

Then, for main yield, join the parts again, that foragers and home beeds are in balance.

Read firts MAAREC swarm prevention and other advices. http://agdev.anr.udel.edu/maarec/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Swarm_Prev_Control_PM.pdf

[backyard warrior]

Its best not to do a split untill the middle of the summer when the main flow is over.  If you find swarm cells you can do similar what finiski said.  Put empty box on bottom of hive with foundation.  Install queen in bottom box put excluder on top.  Install a honey super or two then put all the frames from the bottom of the hive with the swarm cells in the top of the hive with required boxes needed to hold the frames from below.  All the bees will hatch out on top and they will backfill the empty frames with honey and the queen will be down below laying more brood.  this is a good prevention and adds a kick ass population to your hives before the main flow.  You can raise a queen up above and have a two queen hive or you can go into the top of the hive after a few days and remove any swarm cells at that point the eggs will be too old to make a queen out of and you will keep the orginal queen down below.  Me i like to raise a new queen to use for nucs or to requeen a hive with an old queen or after the flow you can just remove the excluder and the queens will fight the young one with more phermone usually is the queen for the new hive.

[backyard warrior]

After your flow split the hive for varroa management u can sell the additional hive or add to your collection or make 4 or so  nucs out of the hive whatever you want to do :)  Chris

[c10250]

After your flow split the hive for varroa management u can sell the additional hive or add to your collection or make 4 or so  nucs out of the hive whatever you want to do :)  Chris

That's what I was thinking of doing, but I would hate to split the hive, and then have one of them swarm because it's all set to do so.

[FRAMEshift]

1. Can a June split prevent swarming, even after swarm cells are observed.

If you see capped swarm cells, the queen has probably already left with the first swarm.  It's not a good idea to remove the queen cells because you may leave the hive queenless and without the ability to make a queen. Removing queen cells will NOT prevent a swarm.

If you do a split to move the queen but not the foragers, that will probably prevent at least the first swarm.   If you don't want to spend the effort to find the queen in a large box, just make sure that  queen cells (or at least some eggs) are in both parts of the split.

2. Would June split be worth it for Varroa

Yes.  From your data I would say that early June would be a good time for a split.  But remember that a brood break is what helps against Varroa.  If you are adding back a laying queen so that both parts of the split have continuous laying, you haven't done anything for Varroa.

Before you do a June split, you should be keeping the broodnest open by adding frames into the broodnest.  That will prevent a swarm until you are ready to do a split.  If you want to maintain the foraging ability of the hive, move the queen, open brood, and honey to a new box.  Keep the capped brood, at least one queen cell or some eggs, and all the foragers in the original hive.

[buck man]

 I believe you will get a good if not great varroa control using an oxalic acid drip. I use a 5% acid solution and put 55 ccs on each big colony. Been doing it in my commercial operation for 9 years now and had great results. Do it when your hive is as broodless as it will or can be. We just completed our treatments on our bees. If your weather is favorable I would do it as soon ad possible.

As far as splitting your hive, as stated before ,any break in the brood cycle will help your varroa situation. Why split in June? Why not the first of april? Then your hive will have 8 weeks to build for the honey flow,  and your chances of losing a swarm are much less. Here in eastern wa I can split most of my hives( by splitting I mean pull 3-4 frames of brood and bees ) by the first week of April. I achieve this by giving the bees a pollen patty right in the middle, (between the brood boxes)  by the end of feb ,and their first round of feed. It may be cold out but usually day time temps are around 45°. I have found that the bees will take feed from a division board feeder and most deffinetly pollen substitute. By the middle of march you will have active brood rearing and get a big jump on being able to split your hivesby April 5 th.

[Michael Bush]

http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm#cutdown

[backyard warrior]

Thats def a good idea to remove the queen and open brood so the workers dont have to feed brood they can collect honey.  I want all the foragers i can get and doing what michael stated about removing open brood and queen will def give you a surplus of honey and prevent a swarm.  There is no way that hive will raise that young brood before the flow is over so you have done varroa treatment, made a new hive, and lots of honey by splitting the hive :)   There is a number of thing you can do but if you want a big honey crop dont split that hive down too much.  Take a few frames from the brood nest and the old queen.  Chris 

[yockey5]

http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm#cutdown

Interesting.