Double deep frames

[buzzbee]

I was looking at Robos site today and came across these  double deep frames.
http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/beekeeping/double-deep-frames/
Has any one else experimented with something like this? What are your results and challenges if you have?

[BlueBee]

I have 3 hives running 14.5" deep frames (aka deep and half).  My bees have done great on them so far, but I have just run them one summer and this winter.  So far, all are alive and thriving.  Admittedly I will need more time to uncover potential problems.  So far the only problem I've had is making the extra deep frames.  Mine use Piecro plastic foundation and are designed to have 10,000 cells per frame.   That makes brood counts easier for me to tally up in my Noggin.  The brood nest has a capacity of 100,000 cells in a 10 frame box. 

A problem with going large is the weight of the frame.  If you go too big, they can give your wrists a workout pulling them up to inspect.  I'm using narrow frames (33mm) and that keeps the weight down except for the outer 2 frames.  Those outer frames do get heavy.  I use a ¾" thick top bar to give me more surface area to grip. 

[BlueBee]

Buzz, my jumbo sized frame hives are really booming this spring.  Are you going to give bigger comb a try?  Tons of bees in the things.  They've already filled a medium super with nectar and not much is really blooming here yet.  I don't know if the bees like all my foam insulation or my large combs better, but they sure are doing well.  

I'm also running a couple of deep hives with a similar foam insulation setup (but bottom entrances on the deeps).  They're also doing well, but the bee numbers in the hives with jumbo frames appear to be 2 to 3x that of the deeps.

The girls are probably going to appreciate all my foam the next couple of nights since we're suppose to dip below freezing.  Weather reality is returning to Michigan  :(

[Finski]

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That big frame size has been used in Eastern Europe.

The frame size is ment to make beekeeping handy. Ectractor size is one.

Here numerous professional beekeepers use only medium size frames because Langstroth weight os danderous to the backbone. They use 3 medium box for brood and for wintering.

What is the advantege of that big size frame, I cannot see.'

I myself, I use 3 langstroth boxes for brood.

This summer I start to saw my Langstroth wooden boxes to size of medium. My back cannot stand Langstroth weight and lift it to the hight of 2 metre.

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[BlueBee]

I agree with you Finski that you NEVER what to lift a box full of big frames.  That is exactly the reason I am experimenting with these jumbo sized frames.  With these frames, I just have 1 brood box that uses the large frames.  On top of that goes honey supers which use small lightweight frames.  I never have to reverse deep boxes in the spring or lift deep boxes since I just have 1 big box for brood.   My jumbo brood box never moves.  I never have to lift anything more than about 15 kg  :)  

This design (1 big bottom box + small honey supers) is very similar to the way Dadant and Brother Adam kept bees.  They claimed the bees collect more honey in such a configuration than using deep boxes or smaller boxes for brood.  I just switched over last summer so I don't know if they'll make me more honey or not, but they sure as heck have a lot more bees in them than my deep hives.  

My big brood box is insulated year round with 4 cm of polystyrene foam, my supers are currently wooden.  Supers get banged around a lot and it's usually not too cold in the summer, so I went with wood.  I winter in just the single insulated jumbo brood box.

Inspecting a hive with jumbo frames is easier than inspecting a hive with a bunch of brood boxes.  All I have to do is pull out 11 frames to check the brood.  I don't have to sort through multiple boxes and 20, 30, 40, or 50 frames.  

I would agree that a negative with this design is removing honey from the jumbo frames!  To keep the brood nest open, I periodically remove the 2 outer frames (almost always honey except in the spring) and insert fresh empty frames in the brood box.  Somehow you have to get honey out of those outer frames when you do this.  

[Finski]

 They claimed the bees collect more honey in such a configuration than using deep boxes or smaller boxes for brood. ames in the brood box.

Bigger honey yields come from pastures, not from hives.

Good laying comes from quality of queen rearing and from continous selecting.

Good yields come especially from migrative beekeeping. That is why easy way to move hives is important

I have learned that the yield per hive is easily between sites, even distance is 2 miles.
Sometimes the difference is 5 fold.

When you look that back ground, jumbo is not handy.

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[BlueBee]

You make some good points Finski.  I agree good pastures = more honey.  However given the same pastures, both Charles Dadant and Brother Adam claimed their large brood comb setup resulted in more honey.  With a combined bee keeping experience of well over 100 years, I think it is worth considering their opinions.  All I have to go on at this point is opinions because this will be my first production season with the jumbos.  So far I am pleased, but more time will tell.

Based on reading their books, they suggest that jumbo hives result in more bees per hive and that more bees per hive = more honey.  Why the jumbos results in more bees, I don't know.  But more bees certainly = more honey when there is a flow.  A 5 frame nuc doesn't pack in as much honey as a double deep, even in the same great pasture.  The number of bees in a box does matter. 

http://books.google.com/books?id=2aNbAAAAMAAJ&dq=dadant%20system%20of%20beekeeping&pg=PA13#v=onepage&q=dadant%20system%20of%20beekeeping&f=false